Authors thank readers...

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

The real power brokers in this Agency fight are the readers. Pity they don't use that power to force BPH's to lower prices.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

True, but I'm looking more toward readers taking an active role in this current fight and boycotting Hachette until they abandon all hope of ever reinstating Agency pricing again.

I doubt it is even possible. They are totally wedded to the idea of price fixing. It works beautifully in their home countries, after all. High pbook prices, minimal ebook penetration, government passing anti-discounting laws.
Publisher heaven.

Hachette would sooner abandon the anglosphere than voluntarilly give up no-discount agency.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I doubt it is even possible. They are totally wedded to the idea of price fixing. It works beautifully in their home countries, after all. High pbook prices, minimal ebook penetration, government passing anti-discounting laws.
Publisher heaven.

Hachette would sooner abandon the anglosphere than voluntarilly give up no-discount agency.

The enabler there is unwarranted governmental intrusion in the market. Thankfully, we're not there. The problem with boycotts is that most shoppers are apathetic and will continue to buy their "must haves"; no matter what the price is.

In the meantime, I'll continue to wage my own personal boycott against anyone who charges too much. There are always cheaper alternatives.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

In the meantime, I'll continue to wage my own personal boycott against anyone who charges too much. There are always cheaper alternatives.

That's the choice everybody gets to make for themselves, where to draw the line...

I made my stand in spring 2010 and so far I'll holding up fine.
Four years and three months BPH-free.
I started when Agency was announced and haven't missed 'em.

[crossi]

I've held the line also against agency level prices. Funny thing, I still am not close to getting caught up with the books I bought but haven't had time to read even with limiting my purchases to what I consider reasonable prices. There are too many books I want to read to care if I don't buy Hachette's books. I hope Amazon doesn't cave. I'm so used to waiting for the MM paperback releases that if I have to wait a year or two for some Hachette book I simply wouldn't care. There's plenty of other books to read while waiting.

[cfrizz]

I am so beyond caring about any of this. People are going to do what they want to do which they should. And I'm going to do what I want to do, which is to support self published writers who sell their books at reasonable prices I'm willing to pay.

So if the price fixing comes back into play it won't effect me one way or another. It will be up to each person to decide if they want to pay the inflated prices. My guess is more will turn to reading self published books. As will more writers decide to self publish and be in control of their own destinies.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

My guess is more will turn to reading self published books. As will more writers decide to self publish and be in control of their own destinies.

That's what happened last time.
Big problem I see is that under agency there is little room for generic/independent ebookstores. Not that there are many left serving the US but with Amazon already commanding the lion's share of indie titles (half a million exclusives), a second round of Agency will likely leave us with just Amazon and Apple. And Apple isn't terribly indie-friendly so the big winner would, again, be Amazon.

Long term that is not good for anybody. Not even Amazon.
(Historically, being gifted with inept enemies just ends up with government intervention and higher consumer prices.)

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That's what happened last time.
Big problem I see is that under agency there is little room for generic/independent ebookstores. Not that there are many left serving the US but with Amazon already commanding the lion's share of indie titles (half a million exclusives), a second round of Agency will likely leave us with just Amazon and Apple. And Apple isn't terribly indie-friendly so the big winner would, again, be Amazon.

Long term that is not good for anybody. Not even Amazon.
(Historically, being gifted with inept enemies just ends up with government intervention and higher consumer prices.)

The govt. will only step in if Amazon starts to abuse it's power. Bezos may be a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them. He knows that WE the people MADE Amazon what it is, we can just as easily UNMAKE them.

I think the last thing he would want is the govt. breathing down his neck and having MILLIONS of happy customers turn unhappy with him abusing his power.

And make no mistake, I have no doubt that the Justice Dept. is keeping a very close eye on Amazon for just this reason.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

The govt. will only step in if Amazon starts to abuse it's power.

.

Theoretically.
In practice, all it takes is a big enough campaign contributor whining in the right ear.

Politicians are plenty cheap to buy and once market share gets big enough, anything short of the company committing suicide is bound to offend somebody, so finding enough complaints to justify an inquisition is trivial.

Just look at how much flack they are getting at 30% total book market share. Now, imagine what it would be like if Nook folded and Kobo withdrew, leaving then at over half the total book market.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Theoretically.
In practice, all it takes is a big enough campaign contributor whining in the right ear.

Politicians are plenty cheap to buy and once market share gets big enough, anything short of the company committing suicide is bound to offend somebody, so finding enough complaints to justify an inquisition is trivial.

Just look at how much flack they are getting at 30% total book market share. Now, imagine what it would be like if Nook folded and Kobo withdrew, leaving then at over half the total book market.

Sigh, I'd rather spend my time reading rather than worrying about theoretical threats that may never come to pass. This is what got the price fixing 5 in to trouble in the first place!

Why everyone always LOOKS for things to be, go, wrong just so they have something to bitch about I don't understand. even if B&N & Kobo went under, someone else will quickly fill the void or do you really thing the tons of us who have invested in epub are just going to change everything over to Amazon? Do you really think we would all be willing to rebuy all of our books to change over to Amazon?

I could since I have Calibre, but I wouldn't because I like epub books. And the majority of readers have no knowledge of it and probably wouldn't do a conversion of all their books. Nor would they rebuy all of their books with Amazon.

[fjtorres]

It's not that I worry about specific scenarios--left to themselves, markets correct nicely.
But they are rarely left to themselves and in the ebook arena market forces are no longer operating alone. The price fix conspiracy made it impossible for the government to stay away and once government forces get involved, politics invariably follows.
Yes, the DOJ is watching Amazon like hawks...and the publishers.
(And Hachette and co are already whining to the european brusselcrats for more Anti-amazon actions.)
At the NYPL confab several anti-Amazon actions were floated like going to the FTC, going to Congress, waiting for the next administration to see if they can be sic'ed on Amazon, and extending the current PR campaign to a full boycott of Amazon. None of these things are about allowing market forces to correct imbalances but rather about winning through politics what they can't win through clean, open comprtition.

Which is why we now face dueling petitions from both sides.
And an outright mudslinging war.

Once bureaucrats and politicians get involved, logic and reason go by the board and it's all about influence peddling and in the end it is consumers who pay the bill.

It would be nice to just get back to reading--I have a couple must reads becoming available next week and, amusingly enough, the Authors' Letter led me to discover a new technothriler series that sounds like fun--but totally ignoring the mess only means getting blinsided when the bill comes due.

I'd rather be alert and prepared for what's coming.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Why everyone always LOOKS for things to be, go, wrong just so they have something to bitch about I don't understand. even if B&N & Kobo went under, someone else will quickly fill the void or do you really thing the tons of us who have invested in epub are just going to change everything over to Amazon? Do you really think we would all be willing to rebuy all of our books to change over to Amazon?

Not that I'm disagreeing with some of your points, but ... um, can you say Betamax? What about those big video disks?

I don't think it's impossible we could end up with just that - that suddenly ePub goes the way of LIT, PDB, IMP, etc.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It would be nice to just get back to reading--I have a couple must reads becoming available next week and, amusingly enough, the Authors' Letter led me to discover a new technothriler series that sounds like fun--but totally ignoring the mess only means getting blinsided when the bill comes due.

I'd rather be alert and prepared for what's coming.

To do what? Amass a large TBR pile?

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

Not that I'm disagreeing with some of your points, but ... um, can you say Betamax? What about those big video disks?

I don't think it's impossible we could end up with just that - that suddenly ePub goes the way of LIT, PDB, IMP, etc.

It was just this idiotic competition that started these companies on two different incompatible formats wars.

Those of us who remember it are now smart enough to not be the first ones out of the gate to buy new tech. We simply wait for the dust to settle, and then buy from whoever is left standing.

[Namekuseijin]

only fact I know for certain: my reading has skyrocketed since buying a kindle. Though I've rarely gave a chance to indie authors....

I finished Dan Brown's Inferno recently and there's lots of funny remarks about ebooks in there

[TCSimpson]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Exactly.
Like it or not, we all have a stake in this ongoing conflict.
We are the ones footing the bill for the party.

If you like high ebook prices, tradpub has you covered. Agency at 2005 price levels is their end game.
If you like reasonable ebook prices, even for titles from millionaire authors, then like it or not, despise them or not, Amazon is your champion today.

It's not a matter of good guys or bad guys, it is strictly a matter of prices. We all saw what agency did (20% hike) and what removal of agency brought (BPH bestseller prices even lower than the "unacceptable" $9.99 price point).

Hachette publicly said they want no-discount Agency, HC and Macmillan just told the court then intend to ask for it when their contracts come up for negotiation.

So, yes, it is all about Agency.
What we are seeing now is simply an extension of the 2010 conspiracy; the BPHs aren't colluding again--they are colluding still. Sticking to their 2010 accords.

Everything is is just a smokescreen: the only question in play is Agency yes or no.

It really is that simple.

Place your bets accordingly.

(although I'm not so sure about the smiley pole dancing ..)