Amazon Rising

[frahse]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Because they've made millons upon millions of dollars through the old system and see Amazon as enabling change *away* from that system? Because the old system strongly favors high-profile authors over mid-listers and newcomers and Amazon doesn't do so quite as much? It's easy to "curve fit" their statements to public data and concoct theories but they would be just speculation.

It doesn't much matter if they are simply misinformed or just too vested in the old system, the fact is they have expressed strong pro-publisher opinions repeatedly, even when the publshers have been known to be in the wrong, and can't be considered unbiased commenters.

My view:

1. They slogged through the old system. Why should newcomers have it easier?
2. They became friends with the old publishing elite and are now so designated themselves, and wish to keep the ladder high, and slick to their elevated perches.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

And the San Francisco earthquake and great chicago fire.

(The reason Amazon has thousands of employees at LAB126 is the Time Tunnel in the 112th sub-basement of their Arizona facility.)

That explains everything. Now I know the reason for the show

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Many of them seem like perfectly lovely people. Forced by their superiors into believing that if you publish enough policies, those policies will cover every possible eventuality and thus absolve them from ever having to make any actual decisions or *shudder* a judgement call.

Monkey and bosses is a bad mix

In other words, the goal of modern management is to never actually have to manage anything. Just follow the chain of policy to it's natural conclusion; point at the relevant spot in the manual, and recite it in an authoritative voice. A monkey could do it.

Good one - I love it

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

That explains everything. Now I know the reason for the show

I loved that thing.
I was delighted to discover it was inspired by a Murray Leinster story.
(And a good one, too, even if markedly different from the show.)

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by frahse

My view:

1. They slogged through the old system. Why should newcomers have it easier?
2. They became friends with the old publishing elite and are now so designated themselves, and wish to keep the ladder high, and slick to their elevated perches.

Reason Number one is why the MLBPA, the strongest union in sports, does nothing for minor league players and has actively worked to minimize signing bonuses for young players; to free up more money for the high-profile free agents who survived the "hazing" of the sweat shop minors and proved themselves at the bigs.

A variation of that is probably part of the reason for the hostility towards indies (and their facilitators): "I'm stuck with a predatory contract I had no choice but to sign and they dare flaunt their freedom, control, and 70% take?!"

[petrucci]

I can certainly understand the sentiment that has been expressed regarding work ethic and working conditions. However, I believe that the outrage at Amazon and other such employers relates to inequities in working conditions and in pay. It is ironic that the jobs that have some of the worst working conditions also have low pay. Things like garbage collection and fast food come to mind. If we truly had a free market economy these undesirable jobs would have to be better paid or no one would do them. This was actually coming to pass in the USA, but the government quickly imported people from other countries who were willing to do the work for less. A surplus of workers is certainly what the companies desire.

In Amazon's case, the outrage also lies in the fact that it is a large company, and could, if it so wished, make the working conditions better. The warehouses could be cooled, and design changes could save the workers from walking long distances. Amazon could also pay the workers more. None of these things are done, and it smacks of greed.

Lastly, some companies make money off of discoveries, inventions, etc. Others make their fortunes off of the backs of poorly paid workers. People generally dislike this. It is a race to the bottom to see who can pay their workers the least.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Reason Number one is why the MLBPA, the strongest union in sports, does nothing for minor league players and has actively worked to minimize signing bonuses for young players; to free up more money for the high-profile free agents who survived the "hazing" of the sweat shop minors and proved themselves at the bigs.

A variation of that is probably part of the reason for the hostility towards indies (and their facilitators): "I'm stuck with a predatory contract I had no choice but to sign and they dare flaunt their freedom, control, and 70% take?!"

Hum, I don't know about that. The top draft pick in this year's draft signed a $6.5 M bonus. The last player in the first round got a $1.5 M bonus. That's more than the NBA plays rookies (top pick gets a $4.6 M for the first year). NFL is less than that.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Hum, I don't know about that. The top draft pick in this year's draft signed a $6.5 M bonus. The last player in the first round got a $1.5 M bonus. That's more than the NBA plays rookies (top pick gets a $4.6 M for the first year). NFL is less than that.

There is now a slotting system and hard caps on draft spending and, worse, on international free agents. Focusing on the top pick neglects the dozens of early rounders getting take-it-or-leave-it low 6 digit bonuses they have to live off for four to eight years and the hundreds who only get token bonuses and get three to five months of pay in the low 4 figures.
All to make sure the sure the 32 year old free agents get every last dime that isn't nailed down.
The system in place heavily rewards the top performers and a few lucky mediocrities at the expense of thousands of younger newcomers who could reslly use a few crumbs off the free agency pie.

Not unlike traditional publishing.
And for the same reasons: it worked fine for granpappy so it'll work fine for you.

Here:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/03/mino...-mlb-bud-selig


Edit: For context: The rule 4 draft typically runs 50-60 rounds. Bonuses for 10th rounders run around $130k. After agent fees and taxes that is closer to $50k. Hall of fame talents have been drafted as low as the 27th round and lower for token bonuses in the hundreds.
And those million dollar bonus babies need opponents to play against and teamates to play with, hence the organizational players drafted low.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by petrucci

In Amazon's case, the outrage also lies in the fact that it is a large company, and could, if it so wished, make the working conditions better. The warehouses could be cooled, and design changes could save the workers from walking long distances. Amazon could also pay the workers more. None of these things are done, and it smacks of greed.

That doesn't make a bit of sense to me. You're saying that BECAUSE Amazon has become so large and so successful, that they should suddenly start doing things that would have prevented them from becoming large and successful in the first place?

Besides... the logic you present still doesn't justify singling out Amazon for NOT doing these things that most big, powerful companies (that also "could" do what you suggest) ultimately decide against doing as well.

It's OK for working people to sweat. It really is. Making people perspire is not, in of itself, a human rights violation. Some people do it voluntarily. For no pay.

[sirmaru]

Thanks for the information. I set my DVR to record it on July 3, 2014, at 2:00 PM EDT.

By the way, the Oligarchy and the Middle Class all need the Underclass to labor hard or all of us would have a very bad life. Let's all be thankful an economy has folks placed to work in every area of economic need.

[RHWright]

I'm not sure how this devolved into a meditation of work ethic.

Yes, there are difficult, dirty, hard jobs out there that require physical labor under taxing conditions. And while a warehouse job will probably never be "easy," neither should it be unduly hazardous.

For example, Amazon officials a few years ago were aware of the conditions in their Breinigsville, PA, warehouse such that they "arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside, ready to treat any workers who dehydrated or suffered other forms of heat stress." (See full story at: http://www.mcall.com/news/local/amaz...,6503103.story)

Needing to have EMTs on constant standby seems to indicate that the "demanding" conditions have escalated to the point where they are, at least potentially, unsafe and life-threatening.

In fairness, Amazon did eventually install air conditioning and improve working conditions. But this was after they were reported to federal workplace safety regulators and the media stories about their warehouse conditions caused such an outcry that they had to prepare statements for their customer service representatives to respond with.

I'm not an Amazon basher. I do shop with them. But it's a considered decision after knowing some facts about their business. I try to keep my business local and with companies that have overall good practices. But this is an ideal that can't always be met. Amazon does have some pluses to offer in value and service. I just don't see them as a "great" or perfect company. I don't think that there are any successful businesses out there with a spotless record if you take everyone's judgements into consideration.

[Lemurion]

The other thing is that 15 miles in a work day spent going to fetch items really isn't that much when you break it down.

It's 2 miles an hour for 7.5 hours. I'm 50 years old, 5'8" and 200 lbs and I don't see that as being anything close to a strain on my capabilities. Temperature can be an issue, but as long as you stay hydrated it's manageable too.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by RHWright

Needing to have EMTs on constant standby seems to indicate that the "demanding" conditions have escalated to the point where they are, at least potentially, unsafe and life-threatening.

I don't see it that way. I've worked in corporate (air-conditioned) campuses where EMTs were on standby (expenses shared by multiple companies) in the parking lot year 'round. Their presence could mean anything from conscientious safety concerns to pure legal CYA.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Temperature can be an issue, but as long as you stay hydrated it's manageable too.

Provided you're allowed to hydrate on company time

[fjtorres]

Re: the infamous 2011 warehouse incident:
http://articles.mcall.com/2011-07-20...excessive-heat

And:
http://www.weather.com/outlook/trave...rom=vac_monavg

Note, July 22 temp = 104F.
Average high for the day 84F.
Average mean for the day 74F.