Selecting an ebook reader

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have to disagree that Kindles work better. If you don't hack or use a hack then the Sony actually can work better. Take the forced margins on a Kindle, most people don't know about the negative margin you can put in an eBook and get rid of the forced margins. But you have to be able to get into an eBook to modify it to add negative margins.

I did say the Sonys outperformed both kindles and Kobos for my purposesin the paragraph you quoted. Of course I haven't tried all kindles so maybe some are better than Sonys?

I prefer Sony readers because they handle collections well and are relatively glitch free. Still this is not as important for many as it is for me.

Helen

[JSWolf]

I know exactly what we need. We need to get the Sony eBook software developers to go work for Kobo. It would be wonderful to have Kobo firmware that didn't need to be patched.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by exachillus

@Helen

The only reason I gave Kobo slightly positive support because of their support of epub(which supports non drm and it is open format) and its variants in their devices. I personally feel like epub support should be considered when buying ereaders.

Other than that reason I doubt that Kobo is any better or worse than the competitors.

EPUB support should not be considered; rather, support of non-DRMed and sideloaded known formats should be considered, the important thing being that as long as you have a non-DRMed ebook (of whatever format) and want to read it on an ereader, you can with a minimum of fuss.

By a shocking coincidence, Kindles do not require DRM in order to function. And the tools necessary to transform an EPUB into an AZW3 are free, readily available, and even open source!

What difference does it make that AZW3 uses a proprietary wrapper, unless you are going the Richard Stallman route... the wrapper is understood by open source tools, which should be the same thing surely.

The openness of the so-called EPUB standard is a myth (because of DRM) and it wouldn't mean anything even if it was true... because AZW3 is just as open.

EDIT: Obviously, this does not take into account library loans outside the US, where only DRMed EPUBs are available. This has nothing to do with the openness of EPUB, though -- it is merely two different restricted ebook ecosystems, one of which has more penetration in the library department.

Normally, we'd get around that with Alf, and happily enjoy our books on whatever device we want, regardless of what Richard Stallman thinks about the morality of a walled garden (with oddly low walls), but... library books...

[meeera]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

EPUB support should not be considered [...]

... unless one wants to borrow mainstream library ebooks outside of the USA.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by meeera

... unless one wants to borrow mainstream library ebooks outside of the USA.

OK, I will grant you the library books exception.

Although in self-defense, I was arguing against the idea of EPUB as some kind of open standard. To whatever extent ADE may be considered an "open standard" , you need an EPUB-compatible ereader.

More like an ADE-compatible ereader.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

OK, I will grant you the library books exception.

Although in self-defense, I was arguing against the idea of EPUB as some kind of open standard. To whatever extent ADE may be considered an "open standard" , you need an EPUB-compatible ereader.

More like an ADE-compatible ereader.

Yes you do. But do you not need an AZW3 or mobi compatible reader to read those formats?

And while you need an ADE compatible reader/software to read books with Adobe DRM I don't think this is an integral part of the epub standard open or not?

Not that it makes it more open or less open, but how many different readers are compatible with epub and how many with AZW3 or kepub as a couple of examples current used formats?

Helen

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Yes you do. But do you not need an AZW3 or mobi compatible reader to read those formats?

And while you need an ADE compatible reader/software to read books with Adobe DRM I don't think this is an integral part of the epub standard open or not?

Not that it makes it more open or less open, but how many different readers are compatible with epub and how many with AZW3 or kepub as a couple of examples current used formats?

Helen

It doesn't matter. All books can be read on any device via Alf, unless it is a library book and thus arguably immoral and outside the purview of Fair Use. In that case, you are limited to an ADE reader, since non-US libraries are not offering EPUBs, they are offering ADE EPUBs.

The EPUB "open standard" itself is inherently meaningless since AZW3/MOBI is just as "open".

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

It doesn't matter. All books can be read on any device via Alf, unless it is a library book and thus arguably immoral and outside the purview of Fair Use. In that case, you are limited to an ADE reader, since non-US libraries are not offering EPUBs, they are offering ADE EPUBs.

The EPUB "open standard" itself is inherently meaningless since AZW3/MOBI is just as "open".

To the public at large? You've mentioned library books a bit, how many libraries support contemporary fiction in non ADE in the USA or outside of it.

Which US libraries offer other formats? Are there the same quantities of kindle (any and all formats) available in major US libraries as there are epub. Or any other formats for standard in copyright library loans? I can't find any (not 1 kindle ebook) but I have only looked at 10 and probably the wrong 10.


Outside of certain communities I think few remove DRM. Perhaps you have statistics that say otherwise, please let me know because all I can get from your posts recently in this thread is that you are saying the same thing over and over in the hopes you will wear people down by sheer stubborn repetition.

No offense intended.
Helen

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by exachillus

Helen,
I naturally agree with the statement. However at least you are not locked into absurd closed formats.

I would not hesitate to dump Kobo when I find an ereader that offers open formats support with sdcard support etc.

Any recommendations?

exachillus, perhaps I don't understand the technicalities, but I think that my jetBook Lite meets your requirements. Newegg has it for $56.95 with free shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9361-_-Product

[shalym]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

To the public at large? You've mentioned library books a bit, how many libraries support contemporary fiction in non ADE in the USA or outside of it.

Which US libraries offer other formats? Are there the same quantities of kindle (any and all formats) available in major US libraries as there are epub. Or any other formats for standard in copyright library loans? I can't find any (not 1 kindle ebook) but I have only looked at 10 and probably the wrong 10.

No offense intended.
Helen

In the entire Overdrive catalog, there are 128,000 fiction books available for the Kindle, and 274,000 fiction books in epub. As far as I know, all US libraries that use Overdrive offer Kindle books. What US libraries are you looking at?

Shari

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

To the public at large? You've mentioned library books a bit, how many libraries support contemporary fiction in non ADE in the USA or outside of it.

Which US libraries offer other formats? Are there the same quantities of kindle (any and all formats) available in major US libraries as there are epub. Or any other formats for standard in copyright library loans? I can't find any (not 1 kindle ebook) but I have only looked at 10 and probably the wrong 10.


Outside of certain communities I think few remove DRM. Perhaps you have statistics that say otherwise, please let me know because all I can get from your posts recently in this thread is that you are saying the same thing over and over in the hopes you will wear people down by sheer stubborn repetition.

No offense intended.
Helen

The vaast majority of the books I read, at least, are available as Kindle books. Any US library that owns those books will have access to both the ADE and the Kindle checkout options.

If you would like to check out the http://hadc.lib.overdrive.com and http://overdrive.slcl.com for example, they both have large selections.

Regarding the removal of DRM, I have no idea how many people do it. But the people who know enough to whine about the "EPUB standard" will also know enough to be able to strip DRM. The rest are most likely just buying from the builtin store of whatever reader they have and don't concern themselves with weird things like formats and files and other arcane stuff.

Or perhaps I am just being too cynical? It is possible...

[exachillus]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

exachillus, perhaps I don't understand the technicalities, but I think that my jetBook Lite meets your requirements. Newegg has it for $56.95 with free shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9361-_-Product

GA Russell

Thanks for the link. This looks ok for the given price. I was referring to the resolution of the ebook. My kobo has almost the double the amount of the resolution that this one provides.

[speakingtohe]

@eschwartz and shalym

You are absolutely right. I was looking at several libraries the other day but for specific books. Looking at the same but being less specific I see there are slightly more kindle books in some.

This was what I thought before looking for specific books and I was surprised at the time, but it was just my search criteria or perhaps I am blind as a bat.

I stand corrected.

Helen

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The vaast majority of the books I read, at least, are available as Kindle books. Any US library that owns those books will have access to both the ADE and the Kindle checkout options.

If you would like to check out the http://hadc.lib.overdrive.com and http://overdrive.slcl.com for example, they both have large selections.

Regarding the removal of DRM, I have no idea how many people do it. But the people who know enough to whine about the "EPUB standard" will also know enough to be able to strip DRM. The rest are most likely just buying from the builtin store of whatever reader they have and don't concern themselves with weird things like formats and files and other arcane stuff.

Or perhaps I am just being too cynical? It is possible...

I don't think cynical has much to do with it. I actually think the percentage of whiners is very small.

Most people buy or borrow the book as is, read it and on with the next. On finding they can't lend or give it away, a few might be dismayed and go back to paper, most just say oh well and continue on.

A few go to the trouble of finding out how to remove DRM, I did myself and it took less than an hour 4 years ago, not because I cared overly it was just to see if it could be done.

I see a lot of people in the course of a day and have discussed ebooks with 5 or six people a week for 6 months a year those same four years. Most of them US citizens That is a lot of people. Not one mentioned DRM or even format. Only one mentioned piracy, and that was in an oblique way. he said his son sent him a lot of books but they were all public domain and he only read new books

I think that the most that the majority of people know about formats is you must get the correct format for your reader, or the correct software for your tablet. Kind of like hand soap. Hard soap won't work in a dispenser, and liquid soap sucks in a soap dish, but we are all able to use either and both wash your hands. And we can convert them to the appropriate soap format if we want to but most of us don't.

Helen

[Hrafn]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I think that the most that the majority of people know about formats is you must get the correct format for your reader, or the correct software for your tablet. Kind of like hand soap. Hard soap won't work in a dispenser, and liquid soap sucks in a soap dish, but we are all able to use either and both wash your hands. And we can convert them to the appropriate soap format if we want to but most of us don't.

The problem with this analogy is that soap is a consumerable, eBooks aren't. You have no need whatsoever for last week/month/year's soap to work with today's dispenser or dish, because that soap doesn't exist any more. However you do have a need for your prior eBook purchases to work with your current eReader. In a worst case scenario, the eBook retailer may have closed up shop (or for other reasons not allow you to download it in a new format) and your old eReader may have stopped working.

Soap and eBooks aren't so much an analogy as a massive disanalogy.