Amazon vs Hachette - Page 28

DiapDealer · 06-22-2014, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

What? I just corrected the claim made about the Galbraith book. Nothing else.

And then you without any knowledge at all just claimed I was wrong. I am still waiting for you to admit that you were wrong or find the evidence that my claim was wrong.

I have no idea what you just said.

tompe · 06-22-2014, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I have no idea what you just said.

Who are you commenting and what?

The start was #391 were you without knowing the facts just claimed I was wrong. I have not yet seen any evidence that I was wrong.

DiapDealer · 06-22-2014, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Who are you commenting and what?

The start was #391 were you without knowing the facts just claimed I was wrong. I have not yet seen any evidence that I was wrong.

I hereby concede that you have not been proven wrong about whatever it is that you think you're not wrong about.

jemc · 06-22-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I hereby concede that you have not been proven wrong about whatever it is that you think you're not wrong about.

I couldn't figure it out either.

jgaiser · 06-22-2014, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemc

I couldn't figure it out either.

“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” ― W.C. Fields.

SteveEisenberg · 06-22-2014, 06:54 PM

According to USA Today, the The Silkworm, in hardback, was listed at amazon.com, on Thursday morning, as shipping in 1- 2 months.

Later in the day, it was decreased to 2-4 weeks.

The next day, Friday, the reporter found it as shipping in 1-2 days.

The link regarding the above is here:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/b...aith/10861329/

As I write this, on Sunday, it's back to "Usually ships within 2 to 4 weeks".

There also have been price gyrations; now it is 40% off, but I recall it was earlier 10% off.

Is it plausible to think that in the just three days this book has been released, Amazon marketeers have learned from experience that it once took 1-2 months to get a shipment, and then took 2-4 weeks, and then went down to 1-2 days, and now is back to 2-4 weeks? No. Not enough time. So Amazon must be, hour by hour, altering the customer experience for their own strategic reasons.

Could it be that when the hardback price is high (80 percent+ of list), estimated shipping time is low, and visa versa? If so, the strategy is to keep customers coming back to amazon.com, looking for the elusive low price/fast shipping alternative, until they finally give up and buy a non-Hachette product.

Alternately, it could be that customer behavior varies at different times of day and of the week, and Amazon has to adjust its anti-Hachette manuvering to minimize driving people over to kobo.com or http://www.barnesandnoble.com/.

Is this game, whatever the rationale, by itself, morally wrong? No, it all depends on who you prefer to do better in the negotiation, Hachette or Amazon.

P.S. I notice that the eBook price, which was earlier $9.99, is now $14.99. Perhaps that has nothing to do with the negotiations. Are Sunday night purchasers willing to pay more?

Kumabjorn · 06-22-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Is it plausible to think that in the just three days this book has been released, Amazon marketeers have learned from experience that it once took 1-2 months to get a shipment, and then took 2-4 weeks, and then went down to 1-2 days, and now is back to 2-4 weeks? No. Not enough time. So Amazon must be, hour by hour, altering the customer experience for their own strategic reasons.

Doesn't Amazon run very sophisticated algorithms that changes prices depending on page hits, duration of on-line time, stuff like that? Sometimes I may have looked at something, come back a day later and then the price is down 10 % or so and if I don't buy it but come back again a day later it is slightly up, as if saying "you had your chance yesterday".

IOW I don't think you see those price changes limited only to Hachette, however they may have more aggressive algorithms running on Hachette items than other items.

Fbone · 06-22-2014, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

P.S. I notice that the eBook price, which was earlier $9.99, is now $14.99. Perhaps that has nothing to do with the negotiations. Are Sunday night purchasers willing to pay more?

I just noticed after your post that the ebook is $11.99 at B&N while it's $14.99 at Amazon. Is that the first time an ebook has been priced lower at B&N?

AnemicOak · 06-22-2014, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbone

I just noticed after your post that the ebook is $11.99 at B&N while it's $14.99 at Amazon. Is that the first time an ebook has been priced lower at B&N?

No, but it doesn't happen a lot & when it does Amazon usually comes along and price matches so it's not cheaper for long.

Barcey · 06-22-2014, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I hereby concede that you have not been proven wrong about whatever it is that you think you're not wrong about.

For what it's worth I think you're both right.

The Guardian article does clearly indicate that Amazon customer's were not able to purchase the ebook. It's using this Amazon thread as it's source though.

http://www.amazon.com/review/RFWTFY7...x2SKNLVD087ZQG

There weren't many posts in the thread so it appears to me that the Guardian article was a baseless and it's not likely that Amazon changed anything based on that thread. More likely it was a glitch switching the website from "not available for preorder" to "available". A few people said that they couldn't buy it around 5:45 am PST and one claimed that the release date changed to June 24th.

One person claims that they preordered the Kindle edition and it showed up on their Kindle on June 19th, so tompe is also correct that some people were able to preorder it.

Quote:

well, I had preordered it and this morning (19 June) the kindle book dutifully downloaded on my device. why the protests ?

rhadin · 06-23-2014, 05:46 AM

An interesting article/review in the New York Review of Books about the new biography of Bezos. There are some interesting comments about the current dispute with Hachette. The article is Citizen Bezos by Steve Coll.

pwalker8 · 06-23-2014, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

An interesting article/review in the New York Review of Books about the new biography of Bezos. There are some interesting comments about the current dispute with Hachette. The article is Citizen Bezos by Steve Coll.

It is an interesting legal question. In general, actions by a company that holds what is considered a monopoly position in a market is held to a different standard than a company that doesn't hold a monopoly position. I don't think there is any doubt that Amazon hold a near monopoly position in the book market. Frankly, as the article hinted, a lot of it comes down to if the prosecutor is interested in pursuing the matter or not.

tubemonkey · 06-23-2014, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

It is an interesting legal question. In general, actions by a company that holds what is considered a monopoly position in a market is held to a different standard than a company that doesn't hold a monopoly position. I don't think there is any doubt that Amazon hold a near monopoly position in the book market. Frankly, as the article hinted, a lot of it comes down to if the prosecutor is interested in pursuing the matter or not.

I hope Amazon becomes the only bookseller

eschwartz · 06-23-2014, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I hope Amazon becomes the only bookseller

And more

SteveEisenberg · 06-23-2014, 09:41 PM

Why self-published authors should side with Hachette

The above makes the blazingly obvious argument that the higher the Big 5 price for a book, the more room indie authors have to charge less and still do reasonably well.

What would really kill indie would be for Amazon to not only drive down Big 5 prices, but also forbid sale of DRM'd books. Then, indie authors would lose not only much of the price incentive, but also those readers who choose indie to avoid DRM.

A weakness of my link is that if Amazon, relatively speaking, wins this negotiation, and a poorer Hachette starts producing lower quality books, that could help indie authors by reducing big publisher competition. But I'm not sure anyone here, other than me, thinks there is significant risk of such a quality decline. And I think it would mostly be seen with non-fiction, due to the higher cost of travel and research.

So indie fiction authors would, on balance, lose big if the Big 5 loses.

06-22-2014, 06:54 PM	#411
SteveEisenberg Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,423 Karma: 43514536 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: near Philadelphia USA Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)	According to USA Today, the The Silkworm, in hardback, was listed at amazon.com, on Thursday morning, as shipping in 1- 2 months. Later in the day, it was decreased to 2-4 weeks. The next day, Friday, the reporter found it as shipping in 1-2 days. The link regarding the above is here: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/b...aith/10861329/ As I write this, on Sunday, it's back to "Usually ships within 2 to 4 weeks". There also have been price gyrations; now it is 40% off, but I recall it was earlier 10% off. Is it plausible to think that in the just three days this book has been released, Amazon marketeers have learned from experience that it once took 1-2 months to get a shipment, and then took 2-4 weeks, and then went down to 1-2 days, and now is back to 2-4 weeks? No. Not enough time. So Amazon must be, hour by hour, altering the customer experience for their own strategic reasons. Could it be that when the hardback price is high (80 percent+ of list), estimated shipping time is low, and visa versa? If so, the strategy is to keep customers coming back to amazon.com, looking for the elusive low price/fast shipping alternative, until they finally give up and buy a non-Hachette product. Alternately, it could be that customer behavior varies at different times of day and of the week, and Amazon has to adjust its anti-Hachette manuvering to minimize driving people over to kobo.com or http://www.barnesandnoble.com/. Is this game, whatever the rationale, by itself, morally wrong? No, it all depends on who you prefer to do better in the negotiation, Hachette or Amazon. P.S. I notice that the eBook price, which was earlier $9.99, is now $14.99. Perhaps that has nothing to do with the negotiations. Are Sunday night purchasers willing to pay more? Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 06-22-2014 at 07:20 PM.

06-23-2014, 09:41 PM	#420
SteveEisenberg Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,423 Karma: 43514536 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: near Philadelphia USA Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)	Why self-published authors should side with Hachette The above makes the blazingly obvious argument that the higher the Big 5 price for a book, the more room indie authors have to charge less and still do reasonably well. What would really kill indie would be for Amazon to not only drive down Big 5 prices, but also forbid sale of DRM'd books. Then, indie authors would lose not only much of the price incentive, but also those readers who choose indie to avoid DRM. A weakness of my link is that if Amazon, relatively speaking, wins this negotiation, and a poorer Hachette starts producing lower quality books, that could help indie authors by reducing big publisher competition. But I'm not sure anyone here, other than me, thinks there is significant risk of such a quality decline. And I think it would mostly be seen with non-fiction, due to the higher cost of travel and research. So indie fiction authors would, on balance, lose big if the Big 5 loses. Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 06-23-2014 at 09:46 PM.

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06-23-2014, 05:46 AM	#416
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	An interesting article/review in the New York Review of Books about the new biography of Bezos. There are some interesting comments about the current dispute with Hachette. The article is Citizen Bezos by Steve Coll.