E-books to outsell print by 2018 says new report

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you explain how you believe library lending could operate without DRM?

This has been explained to you many times. Just because you for some reason do not believe in the proposed solutions does not mean they do not exist.

[HarryT]

You're conflating two separate issues. DRM is used to enforce the terms of an ebook licence, but ebooks (like any other digital product) are still licensed, rather than sold, regardless of whether or not they have DRM, just as if you buy an MP3 file you're buying a licence, not the song itself.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by tompe

This has been explained to you many times. Just because you for some reason do not believe in the proposed solutions does not mean they do not exist.

Can you link to a good explanation please. I have not seem one

Helen

[tompe]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Can you link to a good explanation please. I have not seem one

Helen

One is just to trust people. Most people follow reasonable rules.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

One is just to trust people. Most people follow reasonable rules.

We still put locks on our doors even though most people are, as you very rightly say, trustworthy. The locks are there to protect us against the dishonest minority. A library has to do the same, or very few mainstream publishers would supply them with books.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by tompe

One is just to trust people. Most people follow reasonable rules.

While I would trust you Tompe, judging from your posts and assuming I knew you personally, this does not apply to everyone.

Perhaps less than 10% of the world's citizens are dishonest in any way I think it is probably more than 25% that have done something illegal or dishonest knowingly or not. Call me cynical.

And it doesn't take that many to impact the majority. A shoplifter who steals 10 items per week (and most shoplifters steal more than that every day) is taking the profit from a store with 10% margin of 100 honest customers.

I recently read a post by Jim Butcher saying that 10 times as many of his ebooks were pirated compared to sold. I gather he just tries to ignore it as there is nothing he can do that has not been done.

Me I lock my door when I go out and if I had a car I would lock it too, and I don't leave my valuables lying around when there are strangers in the house. Again untrusting, but I have had several things stolen from me and three break-ins. You may live in a society where such things don't happen and if so I envy you.

I am afraid I grant the publishers and authors etc. the same rights as I have of protecting their livelihood and belongings. I don't place my convenience above those rights.

Helen

[conan50]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

You do realize that this has happened in the past. There are no popular modern readers that support lrf or lit and probably a few other formats.

I doubt B&N going under will have a bigger effect and I am sure that if Amazon went under and most of the kindles broke, that would make a difference to the world at large, but not to DRM. Many publishers/authors etc. already use both Amazon and Adobe DRM. Would be simpler for them.

Are you that confident Amazon is going under soon? are you short selling stock or making wagers? Just curious.

Helen

Yes, I do realize it has happened in the past, but not on as large of a scale as if B&N disappeared, which seems more than likely, or Amazon disappeared, which seems less likely, but anything is possible.
DRM could be dropped tomorrow, and if publishers had half of a brain and wished to stop being Amazon's slave they would drop DRM. Users are getting locked into devices and one or two stores and it is going to bite everyone eventually IMO.
Pottermore is using a non-DRM, common sense solution that would stop piracy and yet gives readers the ability to actually own their books and use the ebooks wherever they want--on any Epub capable device.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by conan50

Pottermore is using a non-DRM, common sense solution that would stop piracy and yet gives readers the ability to actually own their books and use the ebooks wherever they want--on any Epub capable device.

Pottermore use watermarking, which is a form of DRM. Digital Rights Management can take many forms. Encryption is one, watermarking is another; there are others as well.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

While I am not a fan of DRM (basically I am ambivalent) I think it is a bit unrealistic to expect it to disappear when a big majority of publishers, venders and established authors/rights holders are using it.

Helen

Exactly.
And because the vast majority of paying customers (90+%) simply don't care about DRM.

DRM shows no signs of going away. Instead, there is a new encryption DRM on the horizon for epub downloads, ExpressPlay, that I expect will soon be annointed as a European standard. And there is a whole new breed of DRM schemes being cooked up for cloud players and subscription services.

The supply of DRM-free content is growing with the growth of Indie ebooks but that does not mean that the shrinking BPH share will follow suit. Instead, the thinking at LAGARDERE, for one, as revealed in their recent investor briefing, is to double down on DRM as a mechanism for pricing control. I expect them (or theur successor corporation) to be a day one supporter of the coming ExpressPlay ecosystem in europe.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by conan50

Yes, I do realize it has happened in the past, but not on as large of a scale as if B&N disappeared, which seems more than likely, or Amazon disappeared, which seems less likely, but anything is possible.
DRM could be dropped tomorrow, and if publishers had half of a brain and wished to stop being Amazon's slave they would drop DRM. Users are getting locked into devices and one or two stores and it is going to bite everyone eventually IMO.
Pottermore is using a non-DRM, common sense solution that would stop piracy and yet gives readers the ability to actually own their books and use the ebooks wherever they want--on any Epub capable device.

Pottermore allows you to own your own books how?

Direct from Pottermore.com
http://shop.pottermore.com/en_US/abo...ons?c=USD#tc12

12.1 When you buy a downloadable book from us, what you are buying is the right to use that book in the way we explain below for your own personal, non-commercial use only:

§ You may download one (1) copy of each book you purchase for storage and use on your reading/listening system, which could be your computer, your tablet, your MP3 player, your mobile phone, your eBook reader or any other compatible electronic device, or any compatible reading/listening service linked with the Pottermore Shop ("System"). You may also download up to seven (7) further copies of the book for storage and use in the same ways but this is subject to the continued availability of the book via the Pottermore Shop.

§ If you are a parent or guardian who has made the purchase on behalf of your child/children under 18 years of age, you may share such download(s) with your child/children under 18 years of age.

§ If you have used the gift facilities at the Pottermore Shop to purchase the book as a gift for a friend, your friend will be entitled to download and use the book in the way described above.

12.3 You may not and may not permit others to do any of the following things in relation to any book or extract:

§ sell, distribute, loan, share, give or lend the book or extract to any other person including to your friends (except in the limited circumstances explained at 12.1 above);

§ communicate to the public, publicly perform, transmit, broadcast or use the book or extract for any promotional purposes;

§ translate, modify, adapt or create any derivative works of the book or extract;

§ print-on-demand or copy or burn the book or extract to a device whose principal function is to act as a storage device, for example, a CD/DVD or USB stick;

§ remove or in any way amend or tamper with any copyright or trade mark notice or other identifier contained in the book or extract;

§ interfere with, remove, alter or circumvent or attempt any of the actions listed in this paragraph above in respect of any of the security measures and technology (including, without limitation, rights or identification management and copyright protection technology) used in connection with the book or extract or take any other action that may infringe any rights of the copyright owners of the book or extract;

§ make any use of the book or extract in any form, by any manner or for any purpose (whether commercial or non-commercial) except as expressly set out in paragraph 12.1 above.

12.4 Please be aware that if you use any of the books or extracts in a way other than is specifically permitted under these Terms, you may be infringing copyright or other rights and therefore may be exposed to civil and/or criminal legal action.

What is the major difference other than you can possibly bypass the DRM more easily?

You can't sell it, lend it or give it away legally.

Helen

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

We still put locks on our doors even though most people are, as you very rightly say, trustworthy. The locks are there to protect us against the dishonest minority. A library has to do the same, or very few mainstream publishers would supply them with books.

I do not believe that to be true at all. If the publisher get paid for each lending of a book I do not see why the fact that some people keep the book a longer time would reduce the income for the publisher.

[conan50]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Pottermore use watermarking, which is a form of DRM. Digital Rights Management can take many forms. Encryption is one, watermarking is another; there are others as well.

Watermarking is a 'lesser evil'. It doesn't tie you to anything but the book. You don't have any limitations unless you are illegally uploading it.
Of course it ties you to the book and the book to you, but there is no limitations on what device you use it on.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by tompe

I do not believe that to be true at all. If the publisher get paid for each lending of a book I do not see why the fact that some people keep the book a longer time would reduce the income for the publisher.

They are protecting against the fact that some people might borrow it and give a copy to someone else who might have bought the book or might have borrowed it themselves.

This does deprive the publisher and author of income.

Some people are even unaware that they are doing anything wrong by doing this. Still it is wrong and illegal and DRM is the only way I know of to partially prevent this. Blind naive trust just doesn't work much of the time.

Helen

[conan50]

The music industry survives without DRM.
When books are less expensive, and easy to use on any ereader, piracy will end. And we may even grow new readers.
Books now must compete against all sorts of entertainment that did not exist a few decades ago. Consider that you can buy movies for the same price, or less than many ebooks--and that is a problem. Book publishers, traditional publishers, are in serious trouble. But at the other end of the spectrum, readers who have bought into ebooks may find the new book gate-keepers are as bad as the old. The saving grace is that Amazon still allows authors to remove DRM when they publish, and Amazon allows new authors/publishers to basically set their own prices. If Amazon continues to allow DRM to be optional, and does not use the sword they wield, things may not be grim, but already Amazon must be seeing the benefit of lock-in to Kindle readers.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/14/the...y-it-will-end/

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by conan50

Pottermore is using a non-DRM, common sense solution that would stop piracy and yet gives readers the ability to actually own their books and use the ebooks wherever they want--on any Epub capable device.

Harry Potter library loans have encryption-style DRM.

So does the Kindle version, and possibly the other ebookstore versions as well -- I only know for sure that the copy you download directly from them isn't encrypted.