Amazon vs Hachette

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Just to try to get a bit back on topic:
Amazon pays more per copy in general as do other self pub methods and they will pretty well market anything legal AFAIK.

Hachette et al pick and chose, pay less per copy, but may give a better overall return for a slightly successful author. And for the less than intrepid reader, there is a fairly strong likelihood, that the book will not be an overall disappointment.

Still there are statistics indicating that there is more money to be made selling through Amazon.

I'll know which is true probably when established authors (and I don't mean great authors, or better authors, just those who do well already) start switching en masse to Amazon or self pub.

And I hope for the best outcome for authors, readers, and even publishers.

Helen

A lot of them are switching to self-pub'd but you can't necessarily tell. The latest two examples I ran across are Ilona Andrews and Leslie Caine. They don't appear to have self-pub'd works...but when you do a bit of research their "publisher" is actually their agent from what I can tell (in the case of "Cleansweep" for Ilona Andrews and Death by Inferior Design by Caine.)

There are also multiple previously published authors banding together and publishing under an 'imprint.' It's going to be harder and harder to tell just who is self-published, especially when they go through their agents or get together and publish under group efforts. There's another agent out there who is publishing his clients' backlist--but they don't use the individual author names, they use a name the agent came up with. Those particular ebooks were never under any publisher obligation because they were in print too along ago, and apparently it makes more sense for the agent to get the publishing done for them rather than give the rights back to the publisher.

I don't know if that counts as self-published, but in the case of Caine and Andrews, there were enough typos in both (Not bad--there were only a few) that I noticed and wondered just who the NYLA publisher is/was and near as I can tell it's an agent or something like that. But I know Ilona Andrews wrote the book as part of a blog release and she's doing the second in that series the same way.

(I could be off on some details. I did not research thoroughly, but I do believe the point is that Helen is right: It makes sense to try both avenues and there is money to be made going it alone or more alone than through just trad. This may all change too as no one says Amazon has to keep paying 70 percent. But Ilona Andrews is a very popular author and if she gets even 50 percent from the sales of ebooks, that has to be a larger percentage than she sees from her publisher. It also allows her/team to publish more books if they can be churned out. Publishers have a schedule and calendar--they aren't going to take any book dropped in that the author happens to have finished.)

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I was joking more than anything, but I can't help but see continually advancing more money than they expect to earn back as irresponsible. So irresponsible, in fact, that I suspect its simply not true, or as others have suggested, it just doesn't mean what they want people to think it means.

I am pretty sure this is not a continuous event. I am sure they have a reasonable expectation of making money before they make an advance and make money overall. I also think that advances have gotten a lot lower. But it is still an expense.

A similar situation exists in the credit card world. Pretty easy to get a store credit card, even with bad credit rating, and spend a few hundred dollars before you even get the actual plastic. Lot of people don't pay them off or even pay them at all. And for small sums the credit card company doesn't bother to chase them down. Enough people must pay to make it fiscally viable I think.

Helen

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

A lot of them are switching to self-pub'd but you can't necessarily tell. The latest two examples I ran across are Ilona Andrews and Leslie Caine. They don't appear to have self-pub'd works...but when you do a bit of research their "publisher" is actually their agent from what I can tell (in the case of "Cleansweep" for Ilona Andrews and Death by Inferior Design by Caine.)

There are also multiple previously published authors banding together and publishing under an 'imprint.' It's going to be harder and harder to tell just who is self-published, especially when they go through their agents or get together and publish under group efforts. There's another agent out there who is publishing his clients' backlist--but they don't use the individual author names, they use a name the agent came up with. Those particular ebooks were never under any publisher obligation because they were in print too along ago, and apparently it makes more sense for the agent to get the publishing done for them rather than give the rights back to the publisher.

I don't know if that counts as self-published, but in the case of Caine and Andrews, there were enough typos in both (Not bad--there were only a few) that I noticed and wondered just who the NYLA publisher is/was and near as I can tell it's an agent or something like that. But I know Ilona Andrews wrote the book as part of a blog release and she's doing the second in that series the same way.

(I could be off on some details. I did not research thoroughly, but I do believe the point is that Helen is right: It makes sense to try both avenues and there is money to be made going it alone or more alone than through just trad. This may all change too as no one says Amazon has to keep paying 70 percent. But Ilona Andrews is a very popular author and if she gets even 50 percent from the sales of ebooks, that has to be a larger percentage than she sees from her publisher. It also allows her/team to publish more books if they can be churned out. Publishers have a schedule and calendar--they aren't going to take any book dropped in that the author happens to have finished.)

That's not that different from what is happening in the music industry. We still have the big record companies, but we also see a lot of much smaller imprints, who sometimes are really just an individual musician and a few of their friends. There is a lot of gray area between self publish and small imprint.

[jgaiser]

Posted without comment:

Amazon stabbed me in the back

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Posted without comment:

Amazon stabbed me in the back

There's always B&N or Kobo or Walmart or...

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

There's always B&N or Kobo or Walmart or...

Ok. Just one comment. The title *should* read -- Amazon and Hatchette stabbed me in the back. But that wouldn't feed the Amazon hate as well.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Ok. Just one comment. The title *should* read -- Amazon and Hatchette stabbed me in the back. But that wouldn't feed the Amazon hate as well.

Well, the thing is, she has a deal with Hachette, not Amazon. If she had self-published and Amazon took away a pre-order button after an agreement, well then, Amazon would have changed something after an agreement. But like it or not, her agreement is with Hachette. Hachette promised to distribute it. I doubt it promised her distribution at Amazon.

I'd love it if Amazon "owed" me exposure or pre-order buttons or opportunity. But I don't see any of that in the KDP contract...

And, for the record, Kobo allows me to set up my book info for pre-ordering! It's a great perk as far as I'm concerned. I take full advantage of the offering every chance I get.

[Kumabjorn]

TL;dr

The Independent now finds it interesting. Sorry if it has already been mentioned.

[soulfuldog]

I liked this bit from the Independent article:

Authors who have spoken out against Amazon

JK Rowling stepped into the stand-off between her US publisher Hachette and Amazon with a subtle comment in a tweet under her pen name Robert Galbraith. @rgalbraith posted that there are 'lots of ways to order' her new novel The Silkworm in the US as 'Amazon kindly suggets'

Considering there are a few people who've made pretty strong comments against Amazon (right or wrongly), Rowling seems a strange choice for them to highlight, I reckon she could be just a less subtle if she really had any strong views!

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

Considering there are a few people who've made pretty strong comments against Amazon (right or wrongly), Rowling seems a strange choice for them to highlight, I reckon she could be just a less subtle if she really had any strong views!

Oh, I found her a very appropriate spokesperson and typical of the authors assailing Amazon. Rich author making tons of money off Amazon sales. Right now. Still.


Here, try this one:
http://writerunboxed.com/2014/06/10/...Writer+Unboxed)

Michael J. Sullivan, is a fulltime novelist who definitely has real skin in the game, with multiple books published by Orbit (Hachette’s fantasy imprint). I think Sullivan sums things up brilliantly here:

In today’s landscape, publishers are in a tight spot, but they have only themselves to blame. For years their “customer” was the retail channel. They didn’t foster a direct relationship with readers and as such ceded that ground to Amazon. Back when Amazon was gaining dominance, why didn’t they build a site to sell directly to readers? Oh, I forgot…they did. It’s called Bookish and it’s been a miserable failure plagued by delays, poor management, a terrible online experience, and rather than discounting books they sell at full price. Is Amazon “evil” for building a really good mousetrap? Similarly, there was a huge outcry when Amazon bought Goodreads. But why didn’t any of the publishers pick it up first? A site with millions of readers talking about and sharing books, and no one but Amazon saw the value in such an asset? It’s unfair for the publishers to criticize Amazon for their own lack of vision.

So yes, there is an imbalance of power, and Amazon is in a position of strength. It’s because Amazon has been smart, forward thinking and innovative while publishers have plodded along with a “business as usual” mentality, leaving them behind the times. Does Amazon have to give publishers special treatment for their poor choices?

I hope Sullivan’s remarks don’t get him in trouble with Hachette, but I have to say, I find his candor and analysis far more compelling than the chest-thumping of authors like Patterson, who has no problem complaining about Amazon all the way to the bank. Hmmm – here’s a thought: Since he seemingly fears for the future of the entire American culture, maybe Patterson could donate the Amazon-generated portion of his earnings to some noble cause, like the Save Our Adverbs Partnership (SOAP), or my recently hatched nonprofit organization: “Friends Don’t Let Friends Read Cussler.” (Sadly, attempts to secure donations from Patterson have gone unanswered to date.)

Note that Mr Sullivan is at some actual risk of blacklisting for those comments.
Which is why you *don't* hear from other hostage authors who might *not* be blaming Amazon. Makes coverage pretty one-sided.

Or this one:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ishing-writers

But look: if Amazon is indeed doing so much to destroy literature and all the rest, if the situation really is so dire that the US government has to pass laws to fix it, why haven’t Patterson, Robinson, Russo, Turow and other anti-Amazon authors demanded that their publishers pull their books from Amazon? How can someone condemn a company’s evil, monopolistic, culture- and livelihood-destroying ways … while continuing to make millions of dollars working with that company?

So yeah, Rowling is perfect for the role.
She is known to be a tradpub loyalist: even bringing her tradpub into her ebook selfpublishing partnership with Sony when they had little, if anything, to contribute to the online venture. But she's rich enough to afford it. (Plus she is doubtlessly *not* signed to the "industry standard" contract. She is very smart and can afford lawyers to negotiate for her.) The ancien regime works just fine for her. And Patterson. And Colbert.

The silent hostages actually hurting from the impasse might have different opinions, though. Quietly. In private. They might not want to risk having their books designated for deep-discount sales...

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Here, try this one:
http://writerunboxed.com/2014/06/10/...Writer+Unboxed)

This Keith Cronin article is a good sanity check.

There are TWO sides to this. It’s not a blockade; it’s a tug of war. And the books are just the rope.

[Purple Lady]

Amazon has 17 books in stock for The Girl With All the Gifts in Hardcover. It's full list price, but they have it. Walmart won't have it for you until 6-17. Are things getting better or is it just specific books? The publish date is listed as 6-10-2014.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Barcey

This Keith Cronin article is a good sanity check.

Well, yes, especially since he doesn't imply people who disagree with him are insane

This was my favorite sentence:

Frankly, I’ve never been much of a bandwagon-jumper, and I doubt that will change, because issues like these are so rarely black-and-white.

While the above is true, I still think that a company should be more judged by how it treats the people who do work for it than how it treats customers. And, whether it's J. K. Rowling, or a programmer, or a picker in the warehouse, it just doesn't seem they treat their people all that well.

Amazon is no more in business to help indie writers than Hachette. If they succeed in battering down the big five, guess whose percentage will be next to come down?

[tubemonkey]

Amazon Accounts for 60% of Hachette’s eBook Sales in the US, 78% in the UK

Publishers Lunch has discovered an internal investor’s brief for Legardere, Hachette’s parent company. The brief is an incomplete but an otherwise revealing look at Hachette Livre, Legardere’s publishing division, including its operations in the US, Spain, UK, France, and elsewhere.

Among other details, the brief tells us that digital made up 10% of Hachette Livre’s overall revenues in 2013, and around 30% of revenues in the US in 2013.

If you click the image you will see that Amazon accounts for around 60% of Hachette’s digital revenues in the US and 78% of digital revenues in the UK:

Hachette better be nice to Amazon

[HarryT]

I don't think Amazon are blocking Hachette pre-orders in the UK - only in the US. Rowling's new book, "The Silkworm" has a "Pre-order" button on amazon.co.uk.