I'm "Unsatisfied with all of them" - Page 2

rkomar · 06-02-2014, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

I was once told by a library that they sell the donated books and use the money raised to buy "library" books from the publishers.

That's certainly the case here in Vancouver, BC. They are not allowed to lend out donated books.

radius · 06-03-2014, 12:43 PM

I'm in Canada and the Sony Store still sells PRS-T3 models which connect to library Overdrive systems ($79 by itself or $99 with intgrated sleep-cover flap). My local library has abour 230,000-ish titles available (not sure if this includes audiobooks or not).

I personally like the way Sony renders epubs and embedded fonts most out of the popular readers.

That said, I don't understand why you need a reader to connect to the library directly. Personally I find browsing on eInk devices isn't great because of the slow screen refresh and limited screen size. It's much more pleasant to do it on the computer and then move the book to reading device later.

Finally, if you are willing to lose eInk, you could just run the Overdrive app on a tablet and borrow books that way. Maybe there is an Android eInk device out there that would support this?

radius · 06-03-2014, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synamon

Except your imaginary Amazon and Barnes and Noble "libraries" do allow you to download a copy of the ebook you bought under license and you can keep it forever, just like a paper book you buy. DRM complicates things somewhat, but can be avoided or handled. They are not libraries, the book you bought and downloaded doesn't expire, it doesn't need to be returned, if you stop buying books from them you don't lose the copy you bought. They are book stores. Say it with me, book ssstorrresss.

However, unlike "a paper book you buy" you can't transfer your license to read an ebook to someone else.

Also, you say you don't lose the copy you bought, but when a DRM server shuts down you may still have the bits making up an ebook, but no legal way to read it in some jurisdictions.

In fact, the very word "license" has the connotation of someone giving you permission to do something and not a right or property that you have.

susan_cassidy · 06-03-2014, 03:26 PM

The way Amazon's DRM works, there is no DRM server involved. The DRM is keyed to a specific device, and once the book is created (with DRM), you can always read that copy on that device. No server needed.

eschwartz · 06-03-2014, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

The way Amazon's DRM works, there is no DRM server involved. The DRM is keyed to a specific device, and once the book is created (with DRM), you can always read that copy on that device. No server needed.

Unless you lose your device that it is downloaded to, but still have the file backed up (on your computer), which I believe is the use case @radius was talking about. In other words, you become tied down to using the same combination of books+ereaders forever, and it will not last.

AnemicOak · 06-03-2014, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

The way Amazon's DRM works, there is no DRM server involved. The DRM is keyed to a specific device, and once the book is created (with DRM), you can always read that copy on that device. No server needed.

There is still a DRM server just like Adobe. The DRM is applied, by the DRM server, when the book is downloaded (just like Adobe) and the device must be registered to an account (just like Adobe). Where the DRM differs is that Amazon DRM'd books are tied to a specific device/app install while Adobe DRM is tied to a specific account but can be used with any device on that account (unless you download an Adobe DRM'd book without an account in which case it's tied to that install of ADE).

DaleDe · 06-03-2014, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

There is still a DRM server just like Adobe. The DRM is applied, by the DRM server, when the book is downloaded (just like Adobe) and the device must be registered to an account (just like Adobe). Where the DRM differs is that Amazon DRM'd books are tied to a specific device/app install while Adobe DRM is tied to a specific account but can be used with any device on that account (unless you download an Adobe DRM'd book without an account in which case it's tied to that install of ADE).

Actually both are tied to the account and both have a maximum number of devices that can have a license at any one time. You can remove older devices and replace them with new ones. Since ADE does work on devices using SD cards you can use ADE to download to an SD card for an approved device.

Dale

eschwartz · 06-03-2014, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Actually both are tied to the account and both have a maximum number of devices that can have a license at any one time. You can remove older devices and replace them with new ones. Since ADE does work on devices using SD cards you can use ADE to download to an SD card for an approved device.

Dale

Amazon books (files) that are tied to a specific device/app are by extension tied to an account, I suppose...

Nevertheless...

They (files) are tied to a specific device/app.

I think what you meant is that a book (record) can be downloaded to any device/app tied to the account -- and it (file) will be downloaded with device-specific DRM, so for the purpose of this discussion, (we are talking about DRM servers going offline,) that is all that matters.

I am not sure what the point of your SD card statement was.

DaleDe · 06-03-2014, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Amazon books (files) that are tied to a specific device/app are by extension tied to an account, I suppose...

Nevertheless...

They (files) are tied to a specific device/app.

I think what you meant is that a book (record) can be downloaded to any device/app tied to the account -- and it (file) will be downloaded with device-specific DRM, so for the purpose of this discussion, (we are talking about DRM servers going offline,) that is all that matters.

I am not sure what the point of your SD card statement was.

Yes, and ADE, after download is also tied to the device. The SD card example is the one case where a device might not be connected to the USB port but generally the device is sideloaded and gets the file along with a key (loaded elsewhere) which is keyed to the device. The difference I suppose is the ADE copy on your PC can be used to connect to multiple devices where only the cloud works in Amazon.

Dale

applewine · 06-03-2014, 07:06 PM

Do a web search for "Norwegian bookseller begins selling e-books on memory cards"

E-books could be sold on hard-copies, just like a blu-ray etc. That way you can play it on any device. Imagine if your blu-ray only worked on one player for the rest of your life. Though I get it that you can download the e-book on other devices as long as you have a connection.

I think if you buy an e-book they should give you a digital hard-copy. You can use their cloud service for convenience though so long as it exists.

The person who said you don't need over-drive built into the reader may be right. I can see it working with a computer, I do that. The big problem is that as one poster said, the publishers don't like to sell to libraries and that is why we don't see good libraries with custom selection catering to the customers.

I had no idea about Sribd or the other library services. I did a search though and they don't have good selection. The publishers probably don't want to sell books to them.

The music companies are really moving forward with digital licensing models though. I do get it that books are little more individualized products. With music you just hit play and let it go on anything. Books are much more per-item content specific in some ways.

pierro78 · 06-04-2014, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radius

Finally, if you are willing to lose eInk, you could just run the Overdrive app on a tablet and borrow books that way. Maybe there is an Android eInk device out there that would support this?

Yes the eInk android Onyx Boox i63ml ( http://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/201...-i63ml-newton/ ) should support this
( I am personnally waiting for the first user reviews of the android 4 Onyx T68 ( https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Boox_T68 ) because I like its bigger screen better ... I am also interested in news from the android 4 Onyx i86 which will have an even bigger 8 inch screen ...)

NickyWithNook · 06-04-2014, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applewine

I had no idea. So what happens when you donate a personal book to a library? Do they contact the publisher and pay some kind of extra fee and ask for a copy of the terms and conditions and sign that?

I worked in a library through college and, at least then, they would accept a donated book into the library if it was a popular book, but they'd recognize that it would not last very long. Regular books don't hold up to the heavy use of libraries, but an extra copy of a popular book is an extra copy of a popular book. Library editions are stronger. It's more about how long the book will last than having to pay extra in order for it to be able to circulate.

But if you lose a book, you can't just buy another copy at the bookstore and donate it to the library because it won't be a library edition and won't fill their needs.

bookwurm70 · 06-04-2014, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applewine

Is there anything stopping me from just buying printed books and starting a for-profit library? Is there anything stopping the same thing with e-books? Is there some kind of terms of sale when you buy an e-book that says you can't put it in a shared library? I'm talking about a direct-sale from a publisher, not from a reseller like kindle or Barnes and Noble which is not really ownership, but a special copy in their library reserved for you all the time.

Yes, there is something stopping you from starting your own e-book lending library (either for profit or non): Licensing. No one ever actually buys an ebook. They are all licensed (sadly).

To start a library you'd have to work directly with the publishers or a "library" vendor. And as a librarian, I can tell you that that is where you would run into trouble. Publishers charge libraries MUCH more for an ebook than a regular consumer because they will be read by multiple people and more times than a single person buying a book.

Any deviation from the licensing agreement you agree to when you "buy" it, is open for a lawsuit. Even though you didn't get to agree to the terms before purchasing.

bookwurm70 · 06-04-2014, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applewine

I had no idea. So what happens when you donate a personal book to a library? Do they contact the publisher and pay some kind of extra fee and ask for a copy of the terms and conditions and sign that?

At my library we do add donated books to our collection, and we don't pay an extra fee to the publisher for the print book. That is because in the U.S. there have already been court cases that have decided that the original purchaser of the book has the right to do with it whatever they want: keep, sell, donate, or destroy.

It is not the same with ebooks. They are digital and can only be used as the licensing agreement permits. I suspect that may change in the future, but for now, this is the way it is.

applewine · 06-05-2014, 01:43 AM

Some e- books are being sold on read- only memory cards that go into the back of the e-reader. Perhaps those you are buying just like a printed book.

There are so- many hangups I have with e-books. I guess it works if you don't worry and just read. If you don't want to read it again them it especially does not matter that you are locked into a format or company.

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06-03-2014, 12:43 PM	#17
radius Lector minore Posts: 660 Karma: 1738720 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Aura One, Paperwhite Signature	I'm in Canada and the Sony Store still sells PRS-T3 models which connect to library Overdrive systems ($79 by itself or $99 with intgrated sleep-cover flap). My local library has abour 230,000-ish titles available (not sure if this includes audiobooks or not). I personally like the way Sony renders epubs and embedded fonts most out of the popular readers. That said, I don't understand why you need a reader to connect to the library directly. Personally I find browsing on eInk devices isn't great because of the slow screen refresh and limited screen size. It's much more pleasant to do it on the computer and then move the book to reading device later. Finally, if you are willing to lose eInk, you could just run the Overdrive app on a tablet and borrow books that way. Maybe there is an Android eInk device out there that would support this?

06-03-2014, 03:26 PM	#19
susan_cassidy Wizard Posts: 2,251 Karma: 3720310 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Device: Kindle, iPad (not used much for reading)	The way Amazon's DRM works, there is no DRM server involved. The DRM is keyed to a specific device, and once the book is created (with DRM), you can always read that copy on that device. No server needed.

06-03-2014, 07:06 PM	#25
applewine Enthusiast Posts: 26 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle 3	Do a web search for "Norwegian bookseller begins selling e-books on memory cards" E-books could be sold on hard-copies, just like a blu-ray etc. That way you can play it on any device. Imagine if your blu-ray only worked on one player for the rest of your life. Though I get it that you can download the e-book on other devices as long as you have a connection. I think if you buy an e-book they should give you a digital hard-copy. You can use their cloud service for convenience though so long as it exists. The person who said you don't need over-drive built into the reader may be right. I can see it working with a computer, I do that. The big problem is that as one poster said, the publishers don't like to sell to libraries and that is why we don't see good libraries with custom selection catering to the customers. I had no idea about Sribd or the other library services. I did a search though and they don't have good selection. The publishers probably don't want to sell books to them. The music companies are really moving forward with digital licensing models though. I do get it that books are little more individualized products. With music you just hit play and let it go on anything. Books are much more per-item content specific in some ways.

06-05-2014, 01:43 AM	#30
applewine Enthusiast Posts: 26 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle 3	Some e- books are being sold on read- only memory cards that go into the back of the e-reader. Perhaps those you are buying just like a printed book. There are so- many hangups I have with e-books. I guess it works if you don't worry and just read. If you don't want to read it again them it especially does not matter that you are locked into a format or company.