Aligning poetry lines flush that begin with left quotation marks

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Seriously, on the poetry, just use a small hanging indent of a few px/ems/whatever blows your skirt up. Don't give up on it, just because it won't align perfectly. That way lies madness.

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

This is exactly how I would handle it. Won't work on every single font someone can throw at it, but will work GOOD ENOUGH on MOST fonts and font sizes.

Actually, I think I'd rather have a normal left alignment than a less-than-perfect hanging punctuation.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Actually, I think I'd rather have a normal left alignment than a less-than-perfect hanging punctuation.

Jellby, my sweet:

This feeling is because you work only on what intrigues or interests you. Tex and I are book-slaves. This means that we have to endure and survive, and I, more than most, have to deal directly with poet-clients. What if the hang is supposed to be "perfectly" aligned with the 4th letter? Or the 8th? Or halfway across the line, perfectly aligned with the first lower-case "t" in "buttwax?"

No, no...that way lies madness. Said it earlier, say it again. MAAAADNESS. I mean...if you consider that you wouldn't make yourself crazed for the first lower-case "t" in "buttwax," you can see that the first letter after the opening quotemark is really the same thing. It's all just a matter of degree. So to speak.

Hitch

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Hitch

This feeling is because you work only on what intrigues or interests you.

Not only because of that. It's also because I'm a perfectionists, and I'd rather have a "perfect" alignment on the left, than a lousy alignment on something that's approximately the size of a quote mark, but not exactly... that would get on my nerves and make me want to adjust it exactly for my preferred font

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to make my clients see it this way. And I'd probably fail, and I'd feel miserable

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Not only because of that. It's also because I'm a perfectionists, and I'd rather have a "perfect" alignment on the left, than a lousy alignment on something that's approximately the size of a quote mark, but not exactly... that would get on my nerves and make me want to adjust it exactly for my preferred font

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to make my clients see it this way. And I'd probably fail, and I'd feel miserable

See? See? There is no winning this. That's why I'm saying, instead of making yourself insane, just accept the reality.

Hitch

[theducks]

Locking to a Monospaced font might have a chance

I am the type that wants the decimal point to line up in a table

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by theducks

Locking to a Monospaced font might have a chance

I am the type that wants the decimal point to line up in a table

Totally different issue. I can live with variations in poetry alignment but numbers is a different thing. That is why decimal align is a feature of some word processors and spreadsheet programs.

Dale

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Totally different issue. I can live with variations in poetry alignment but numbers is a different thing. That is why decimal align is a feature of some word processors and spreadsheet programs.

Dale

Agreed. You can't compare the two. Decimals are crucial to convey meaning (amounts, etc.), while one space for poetry is just...well. We all know what it is.

Hitch

[susan_cassidy]

Why do you think that the double-quote should be treated any differently than any other character? In other words, why are you wanting to indent the rest of the text? It would look perfectly fine to just let the lines fall where they naturally would.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

Why do you think that the double-quote should be treated any differently than any other character? In other words, why are you wanting to indent the rest of the text? It would look perfectly fine to just let the lines fall where they naturally would.

Poetry is Special, and we uncultured fools cannot understand the soul of the art?

Apparently, these poetry types need it. It makes them happy. If we understood why, we'd be reading poetry too.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Jellby

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to make my clients see it this way. And I'd probably fail, and I'd feel miserable

Actually, that is what I do when they insist on something that makes me grumble.... Lots of reasoning/examples, and then I leave the PROPER code in there, but commented out, so it allows easy updating in the future when they see my way is superior!

I did that a few months ago with an ebook where they insisted on having captions inside the images. While an "ok" solution in the short-run, that will only bring misery and headaches in the future!

Originally Posted by Hitch

Tex and I are book-slaves. This means that we have to endure and survive, and I, more than most, have to deal directly with poet-clients.

After reading your horror stories, I refuse to do poetry.

I only have to handle a few lines/stanzas every so often.... and I just use a little negative indent. Non-fiction books aren't really chock full of poetry.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Poetry is Special, and we uncultured fools cannot understand the soul of the art?

Apparently, these poetry types need it. It makes them happy. If we understood why, we'd be reading poetry too.

[eschwartz]

Thanks for the K!

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

Why do you think that the double-quote should be treated any differently than any other character? In other words, why are you wanting to indent the rest of the text? It would look perfectly fine to just let the lines fall where they naturally would.

It's a relatively common typesetting choice for poetry. As for the reasons, I can imagine that:

1. The quote doesn't really belong to the poetry. The quote belongs to the external text, and the whole poetry is inside the quote. This does not apply when the quote belongs to the poetry, as in You are old, Father William. In that case it would be wrong (in my opinion, at least) to "hang" the quotes.

2. It can be argued that it "looks nicer".