Amazon vs Hachette

[tompe]

Originally Posted by din155

You mean the same masses who can have ten apps for selfies but can't have two or three different apps to read their favourite authors? And if they don't know it themselves, they won't ask their friend or colleagues?
Hope you are not assuming that people only read on kindles.

No. How many people do you think have 10 apps for selfies? You are overestimating the knowledge that people have.

[din155]

Originally Posted by tompe

No. How many people do you think have 10 apps for selfies? You are overestimating the knowledge that people have.

Now you are arguing just for the sake of it but I will humour you. I know at least seven people who have recommended me different selfie apps. Out of those only three are regular readers. Two read on their phones and consider ereaders a waste of money (inspite of my several attempts to get them one). None of them are really tech savvy but use sainsburrys, Amazon and waterstones for books in uk. Now please provide me their preference because the only thing I can understand is that they like to read from wherever they get it cheapest or get it atleast.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Ah, but according to some people you must be imagining the existence of these strange "other shops" you speak of... after all, "[Amazon] eliminate all competition and when they are gone you can raise the price".

Or to put it another way, They are so focused on what they think MIGHT happen in the future, that they can't see what's NOT going on right now!

[fjtorres]

Amazon speaks, mildly, professionally, non-inflamatory:
http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/r...x1UO5T446WM5YY

We are currently buying less (print) inventory and "safety stock" on titles from the publisher, Hachette, than we ordinarily do, and are no longer taking pre-orders on titles whose publication dates are in the future. Instead, customers can order new titles when their publication date arrives. For titles with no stock on hand, customers can still place an order at which time we order the inventory from Hachette -- availability on those titles is dependent on how long it takes Hachette to fill the orders we place. Once the inventory arrives, we ship it to the customer promptly. These changes are related to the contract and terms between Hachette and Amazon.

At Amazon, we do business with more than 70,000 suppliers, including thousands of publishers. One of our important suppliers is Hachette, which is part of a $10 billion media conglomerate. Unfortunately, despite much work from both sides, we have been unable to reach mutually-acceptable agreement on terms. Hachette has operated in good faith and we admire the company and its executives. Nevertheless, the two companies have so far failed to find a solution. Even more unfortunate, though we remain hopeful and are working hard to come to a resolution as soon as possible, we are not optimistic that this will be resolved soon.

Negotiating with suppliers for equitable terms and making stocking and assortment decisions based on those terms is one of a bookseller's, or any retailer's, most important jobs. Suppliers get to decide the terms under which they are willing to sell to a retailer. It's reciprocally the right of a retailer to determine whether the terms on offer are acceptable and to stock items accordingly. A retailer can feature a supplier's items in its advertising and promotional circulars, "stack it high" in the front of the store, keep small quantities on hand in the back aisle, or not carry the item at all, and bookstores and other retailers do these every day. When we negotiate with suppliers, we are doing so on behalf of customers. Negotiating for acceptable terms is an essential business practice that is critical to keeping service and value high for customers in the medium and long term.

A word about proportion: this business interruption affects a small percentage of Amazon's demand-weighted units. If you order 1,000 items from Amazon, 989 will be unaffected by this interruption. If you do need one of the affected titles quickly, we regret the inconvenience and encourage you to purchase a new or used version from one of our third-party sellers or from one of our competitors.

We also take seriously the impact it has when, however infrequently, such a business interruption affects authors. We've offered to Hachette to fund 50% of an author pool - to be allocated by Hachette - to mitigate the impact of this dispute on author royalties, if Hachette funds the other 50%. We did this with the publisher Macmillan some years ago. We hope Hachette takes us up on it.

This topic has generated a variety of coverage, presumably in part because the negotiation is with a book publisher instead of a supplier of a different type of product. Some of the coverage has expressed a relatively narrow point of view. Here is one post that offers a wider perspective.

http://www.thecockeyedpessimist.blog...amazoncom.html

Thank you.

Bold mine.

Me, I'll point out these two:
http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2...ieve-the-spin/

http://www.thepassivevoice.com/05/20...thor-earnings/

[SteveEisenberg]

For titles with no stock on hand, customers can still place an order at which time we order the inventory from Hachette -- availability on those titles is dependent on how long it takes Hachette to fill the orders we place. Once the inventory arrives, we ship it to the customer promptly.

This reminds me of something I thought but didn't mention due to lack of evidence.

It's this: There never really was a 1 - 2 month wait (now down to 1 -3 weeks on the title I've been watching) for any new Hachette book. The most likely explanation for slapping onto a web page long wait times is to discourage purchases from a targeted supplier. But Hachette has no reason to delay shipment, and Amazon is too pro-customer to actually impose the ridiculous estimated wait time if someone did buy the book.

.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

This reminds me of something I thought but didn't mention due to lack of evidence.

Well, that spin didn't take long.

[fjtorres]

Hachette isn't delaying.
They are simply inefficient. Over the last 20 years they have grown accustomed to shipping books by the ton to big retailer warehouses. Big orders only. Their processing system simply isn't up to processing many small orders and Amazon knows it. So they're reminding Hachette of what Amazon does for them above and beyond stocking their books.

Getting their attention two by four style.

[jemc]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Well, that spin didn't take long.

Yes, he is still trying to sell that piece of speculation of his as "fact" with basically no knowledge of Hatchette's shipping times.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Hachette isn't delaying.
They are simply inefficient. Over the last 20 years they have grown accustomed to shipping books by the ton to big retailer warehouses. Big orders only. Their processing system simply isn't up to processing many small orders and Amazon knows it. So they're reminding Hachette of what Amazon does for them above and beyond stocking their books.

Getting their attention two by four style.

Maybe, however, Hachette's distribution center is located practically across the street from Amazon's so I find it hard to believe it takes 1-3 months to ship even a smallish order. Especially when no other retailer (big and small) is experiencing delays.
Edit: Amazon actually doesn't say Hachette ships the orders but merely "fills" them. This would be consistent to what a few Hachette authors are saying that Amazon picks up the orders directly from Hachette to save costs.

I think it's just the usual contract negotiating tactics between two corporations.

[AnemicOak]

When Amazon posts extended wait times on any product they over-estimate how long it will take in my personal experience (mainly with books & movies). I suppose so for the customer it's a happy day when the item ships 'early' and they don't have an angry customer if obtaining the product is delayed (for example it's out of stock at the mfg warehouse).

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

When Amazon posts extended wait times on any product they over-estimate how long it will take in my personal experience (mainly with books & movies). I suppose so for the customer it's a happy day when the item ships 'early' and they don't have an angry customer if obtaining the product is delayed (for example it's out of stock at the mfg warehouse).

Precisely.

I remember an instance when Outlaw Audio set a ship date for a new prepro, advanced orders were placed...lots of them. Then the date got extended & extended & extended & extended & extended & extended. Needless to say people were rightfully ticked off. They finally dropped the prepro and made a deal with someone else to provide one.

Needless to say it was a marketing nightmare that they never repeated. I bet a whole lot of businesses took note of that debacle and make sure not to have it happen to them. Including Amazon.

As for you Anti-Amazon spin doctors, it's been pointed out that this is just typical business as usual negotiations between two corporations, and one is desperate to get the upper hand which is why they went public. Hoping negative publicity would force the others hand. I hope Amazon sticks to their guns & sticks it to Hatchette.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by jemc

Yes, he is still trying to sell that piece of speculation of his as "fact" with basically no knowledge of Hachette's shipping times.

How could it be that on the book I'm watching (Instinct by Jakes, not meant as a recommendation), I see Amazon doubling and halving the estimated shipping time from day to day. 1-2 weeks, 2-4 weeks, 3-5 weeks, 4-6 weeks, 1-2 months, I've seen them all, back and forth. This can't plausibly be based on knowledge. Knowledge does not change that fast. It's much more plausible that it is part of negotiating to get better prices from a supplier.

Does that make Amazon evil? No. Is a squeezed Hachette going to make me less well entertained? No again. But will a squeezed Hachette make me less well informed? Maybe, although not by much, as they seem, at least in English, overwhelmingly oriented towards fiction and advice books.

Would a squeezed Simon & Schuster make we less well-informed? There I think the answer would be yes. While their stockholders would take some of the hit, it's more than plausible that a squeezed Simon & Schuster or Random House would accept fewer non-fiction book proposals and/or lower advances authors need to finance their research.

Before getting involved in these discussions, I rarely noticed who published what I read. I probably would have greatly overestimated how much I read from is from university presses. But now I see that my interests are middlebrow, and that I do tend to like books from a couple of big publishers.

If you don't like their product, don't consume it. If you can't afford it, wait a couple years for the price to go down, or get it from the library. Problem solved.

Now back to reading The Siege: 68 Hours Inside the Taj Hotel. Penguin Books. This I do recommend.

[jemc]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

How could it be that on the book I'm watching (Instinct by Jakes, not meant as a recommendation), I see Amazon doubling and halving the estimated shipping time from day to day. 1-2 weeks, 2-4 weeks, 3-5 weeks, 4-6 weeks, 1-2 months, I've seen them all, back and forth. This can't plausibly be based on knowledge. Knowledge does not change that fast. It's much more plausible that it is part of negotiating to get better prices from a supplier.

Does that make Amazon evil? No. Is a squeezed Hachette going to make me less well entertained? No again. But will a squeezed Hachette make me less well informed? Maybe, although not by much, as they seem, at least in English, overwhelmingly oriented towards fiction and advice books.

Would a squeezed Simon & Schuster make we less well-informed? There I think the answer would be yes. While their stockholders would take some of the hit, it's more than plausible that a squeezed Simon & Schuster or Random House would accept fewer non-fiction book proposals and/or lower advances authors need to finance their research.

Before getting involved in these discussions, I rarely noticed who published what I read. I probably would have greatly overestimated how much I read from is from university presses. But now I see that my interests are middlebrow, and that I do tend to like books from a couple of big publishers.

If you don't like their product, don't consume it. If you can't afford it, wait a couple years for the price to go down, or get it from the library. Problem solved.

Now back to reading The Siege: 68 Hours Inside the Taj Hotel. Penguin Books. This I do recommend.

So you still have nothing but your own beliefs and even more hand-waving in new directions as "proof" of Hatchette's "quick" shipping times. Sorry, I find this latest speculation less convincing than your previous assertions.

[tubemonkey]

I look at it this way. If a particular book is hard to get (no matter the reason), then I'll just get another book. My TBR list is long and doesn't contain a single must read title. So this tiff between Amazon and Hachette can drag on forever for all I care.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I look at it this way. If a particular book is hard to get (no matter the reason), then I'll just get another book. My TBR list is long and doesn't contain a single must read title. So this tiff between Amazon and Hachette can drag on forever for all I care.

Bezos says: "Bless you, monkey, for you and your breed are legion."