Surface Pro 3

[Kumabjorn]

Panos Panay and his team did an IAMA on Reddit.
Should you be interested you can read it all here.

[WillAdams]

I'm tempted by the idea of the Surface 3, and the formfactor appeals to me. Some thoughts / observations:

- display isn't daylight viewable --- I need that, 'cause I use my machine as a mapreader in the car, and to control my CNC mill when I use it on the deck.
- stylus isn't Wacom --- I really don't like the idea of having to find a source for AAAA batteries again, and finding somewhere in my laptop bag to store a spare so that it won't be lost
- I'd be far more interested if it were possible to run Mac OS X on it --- I tried using my Father-in-law's Windows 8 laptop over the weekend and once again, it enraged me to the point where I had to restrain myself from throwing it across the room (why would it be so difficult to open up an SVG in Chrome? I had to: open the graphic in IE (the default app), copy the filepath, open Chrome, then paste the filepath into the URL bar)

On the bright side, it should run Macromedia FreeHand/MX.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

... I tried using my Father-in-law's Windows 8 laptop over the weekend and once again, it enraged me to the point where I had to restrain myself from throwing it across the room (why would it be so difficult to open up an SVG in Chrome? I had to: open the graphic in IE (the default app), copy the filepath, open Chrome, then paste the filepath into the URL bar)

On the bright side, it should run Macromedia FreeHand/MX.

It's rather incorrect to blame Win8 for that problem. It's Googles fault for omitting the option for opening a local file and not the fault of Win. That the SVG didn't open in Chrome by default is the fault ofnthe laptop's administrator who failed to set the default programs to fit your personal desires.

The "antique" Macromedia FreeHand MX should run fine if, and only if, you can successfully serialize it. The last version of FH used a server based registration system. Those servers no longer exist preventing the last iteration of Macromedia's various apps, along with Adobe's CS2 suite, from successfully serializing.

P.S. It is nice to see someone remember how to spell "FreeHand"

[eschwartz]

Oddness. I just opened Chrome and hit CTRL+O.

The open file dialog popped up. I selected a .txt file and it opened it in Chrome.

Assuming people know basic things about computers like the standard CTRL shortcuts shared by all pretty much all programs (or looked it up in Firefox/IE ), it should not pose any challenge to open files in Chrome.

...

I see there is no menu option to do so, though (and Firefox/IE does). This was news to me, since the last time I bothered to go to the menu and look for how to open files/new tabs/new windows/stuff like that, was probably when I was ten. It was definitely a long time ago, I know that much.

So... you're both wrong.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by pl001

Microsoft was way too late to market, so it is what it is. I think they are doing a pretty good job though considering the market has only been open for 18 months.

Well, if you're talking Surface RTs, their sales are awful. The first models resulted in a huge write off, I don't know what's happened since then, but overall market share for the Surface RT is minute. If you're talking about the Surface Pros, they're basically full-blown, touch-screen laptops with a removable keyboard. It's hard for me to think of them as tablets -- probably because all Microsoft's advertising touts the keyboard as the main selling point. I know one of the big problems, originally, was the difficulty in changing to portrait view. The apps weren't really written for that. I'm guessing that's changed by now. I don't really know.

At any rate, I guess we'll see how it goes. I, personally, have little interest in tablets, and zero interest in anything with Windows on it.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I agree that I was agreeing with you. I was directing snark at the idea that the qualifications for Win8 Metro being a success are "it has apps". The "abstract concept of apps" vs "specific apps" meaning that if I want to do something and look for a app to do it, I will find one on Android and iOS, but not necessarily on Win8. If I look for apps and then figure out something to do with them, then sure, Win8 has apps.

Win8 has apps. Android/iOS has the apps people want.

I'm sorry. I've been pretty obtuse lately. I agree with the above. I'm not a big fan of Apple, mostly because of their suing campaign, but I think both Apple and Android "get it" when they design tablets. My younger brother is a Microsoft application programmer who once worked for Xircom. Back when Windows Mobile was still Windows Mobile or CE, or one of those names it had over the years, he was sent to Redmond to try to convince Microsoft that they didn't need to put everything (including the kitchen sink) in their mobile devices. He argued that this bulk hampered the OS. They politely told him that "thank you, but we know what we're doing." Problem is, they really didn't. You still have Windows 8 phones and tablets failing with the BSOD (blue screen of death) and, because the OS is bloated, it either bogs down (with comparable hardware specs to Android and iOS) or costs too much to make with because it requires higher cost technology to stay even. (To compete in low-cost, emerging markets, Nokia had to make an Android phone that looked like a Windows phone.) What Apple and Android have going is that they understand the benefits of simplicity. I don't think Microsoft is ever going to get that. So, Surface RTs are a mess (look like Windows 8, but won't run real Windows applications) and Surface Pro machines are really touchscreen laptops with detachable keyboards. Neither is really a viable tablet. At least that's the way I see it.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Oddness. I just opened Chrome and hit CTRL+O.

The open file dialog popped up. I selected a .txt file and it opened it in Chrome.

Assuming people know basic things about computers like the standard CTRL shortcuts shared by all pretty much all programs (or looked it up in Firefox/IE ), it should not pose any challenge to open files in Chrome.

Just tested it also in my Chrome Browser. Also opened a picture, a PDF file and an MP3 Music file. That's kind of cool. Thanks for the pointer.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Oddness. I just opened Chrome and hit CTRL+O.

The open file dialog popped up. I...

... So... you're both wrong.

I stand partially corrected. It seems can open a local file in Chrome, but only if you are using a keyboard and if you know the secret handshake. Pure touch users can't due to the lack of a menu or toolbar button to perform the action.

I detest UI that isn't discoverable except by trial-and-terror and consider Chrome's failure in this area to be poor design.

My main point still stands. It is Google's bad design and not the fault of Microsoft's Surface Pro 3 nor their Windows 8/8.1/8.1u1.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

I'm tempted by the idea of the Surface 3, and the formfactor appeals to me. Some thoughts / observations:

- display isn't daylight viewable --- I need that, 'cause I use my machine as a mapreader in the car, and to control my CNC mill when I use it on the deck.
- stylus isn't Wacom --- I really don't like the idea of having to find a source for AAAA batteries again, and finding somewhere in my laptop bag to store a spare so that it won't be lost
- I'd be far more interested if it were possible to run Mac OS X on it --- I tried using my Father-in-law's Windows 8 laptop over the weekend and once again, it enraged me to the point where I had to restrain myself from throwing it across the room (why would it be so difficult to open up an SVG in Chrome? I had to: open the graphic in IE (the default app), copy the filepath, open Chrome, then paste the filepath into the URL bar)

On the bright side, it should run Macromedia FreeHand/MX.

"display isn't daylight viewable" - What display, especially on a tablet, is daylight viewable?

"stylus isn't Wacom" - Most tablets don't even have a stylus. And of course you alway can buy Surface Pro 2 or Dell Venue 11 Pro or.....

"I'd be far more interested if it were possible to run Mac OS X on it" - I've been in an Audi car dealership today. But I'm way more interested in BMW, so I told them...

[WillAdams]

The Fujitsu Stylistic ST-4121 which is still my main machine has a transflective display, and a Wacom digitizer --- none of the machines you mention have a daylight viewable display.

I've been considering an Axiotron Modbook, but the prices have begun increasing of late.

The big problem w/ opening the file was that I was trying to do it w/ drag-drop and it just wasn't working (this was probably made worse by one of those stupid push to click trackpad designs).

[pl001]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

If you think that "poor" is a synonym for "worthless" then what can I say. I noticed that you ignored my "terrific netbook" praise for the Surface 2. The only way you can equate terrific + poor = worthless is if you are blindly loyal to Microsoft and cannot appreciate a comment that is not 100% glowingly positive.

...and so does a cheap sub $99 Android tablet. If that is someone's use case for a tablet, then the Surface Pro 3 is way overpriced for what they intend to do. Which is another claim (overpriced) that some have made.

Perhaps I used a poor choice of words, but I think my stance is clear. Windows 8 is a good tablet OS and depending on individual needs can make for a great tablet experience unmatched by anything else. It's not all about the number of apps available. It may be poor for your specific needs, but that doesn't mean it's a poor tablet.

I am not loyal to any ecosystem. I just bought a Galaxy S5 and have stated several times that prospective buyers need to see for themselves if it could meet their wants and needs. I wouldn't buy another RT device myself, just because of the issues I've had with IE10/11. I would buy a Win8 tablet though at a similar cost.

And yes, a cheap $99 Android tablet can also do the basics...poorly. But it can't do every tablet task the Surface can and it certainly can't replace a MacBook at the same time.

The Pro 3 is overpriced as a tablet, yes. As a touchscreen ultrabook, no. The tablet functionality is a bonus. People seem to struggle with that but I don't think it's that complicated. If you don't need an ultrabook, the Pro is not for you.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by dwig

I stand partially corrected. It seems can open a local file in Chrome, but only if you are using a keyboard and if you know the secret handshake. Pure touch users can't due to the lack of a menu or toolbar button to perform the action.

I detest UI that isn't discoverable except by trial-and-terror and consider Chrome's failure in this area to be poor design.

My main point still stands. It is Google's bad design and not the fault of Microsoft's Surface Pro 3 nor their Windows 8/8.1/8.1u1.

Fair point about pure touch users. And Google did mess up over here.

However, everyone should know the "secret handshake" since it is a UI standard; in fact, I have been using it for years, across multiple programs (like: all of them), and didn't even realize for several minutes that Chrome was missing a menu slot for it. Since I haven't bothered looking at those menus in many years.

Basically, I consider this a complete non-issue (unless you are using pure touch, I guess, in which case I have plenty of biased opinions against that too ).

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

The Fujitsu Stylistic ST-4121 which is still my main machine has a transflective display, and a Wacom digitizer --- none of the machines you mention have a daylight viewable display...

I've had the Fujitsu Stylistic ST6012 in 2012.
And, quite coincidentally, the European plant of Fujitsu is 10 minutes from my home and had been one of my customers (back then Fujitsu Siemens). So, over the years, I've had quite a few of their tablets as demo units.
I found the ST6012 highly interesting. And in 2006, when receiving my first demo tablet, I found the Windows experience on those tablets more than acceptable. In fact, those tablets 8 years ago had been capable of stuff I still can't do on iOS or Android.
But: The ST6012 was about 2cm deep, extremely heavy, did have an unfortunate balance, a battery duration of less than 3 hours and was almost impossible to hold (the best grip would have been the battery, but then all the stress was on the locking mechanism of the battery). In comparison, the series of Surface tablets is a quantum leap. With the exception of an outdoor display, which doesn't seem to be in the focus of any manufacturer...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by dwig

I stand partially corrected. It seems can open a local file in Chrome, but only if you are using a keyboard and if you know the secret handshake. Pure touch users can't due to the lack of a menu or toolbar button to perform the action.

Why couldn't you do it with the soft keyboard?

[dwig]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

...
However, everyone should know the "secret handshake" since it is a UI standard; in fact, I have been using it for years, ...

Not everyone has years of experience. I still contend that it is poor design to rely on user's possible experience with other software.

Yes, if I had been in the situation, had been using a mouse and keyboard configuration and didn't have another browser to try I would have tried "the secret handshake", but I have been using personal computers since "the time before MS/PC-DOs". But, honestly, I would probably vented some 4 letter words and simply switch to another browser (I always have more than one on my own machines).