Amazon vs Hachette

[sirmaru]

For me, as a consumer, its simple: Amazon is a hero and Apple is a villain. All other factors are irrelevant.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

For me, as a consumer, its simple: Amazon is a hero and Apple is a villain. All other factors are irrelevant.

"Arch" villain!

Give them their due "gravitas."

[Dopedangel]

I was wondering when Charles Stross would chime in. He has been anti drm for a long time and I can say that predicted Amazon's tactics once it gets a monopoly.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...poly-or-j.html

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

I was wondering when Charles Stross would chime in. He has been anti drm for a long time and I can say that predicted Amazon's tactics once it gets a monopoly.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...poly-or-j.html

A good description I think. It was interesting to see the size difference between Amazon and Hatchette (Ammazon a factor 10 bigger).

[sirmaru]

I notice the German book publisher, Bonnier Media Group, is also facing delivery delays of up to 11 days on their books through Amazon.

It appears Amazon is flexing its muscle to drive down prices and take a larger share of the lower price. All that benefits book consumers.

[Flub]

I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be mostly about agency pricing.

[din155]

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

I was wondering when Charles Stross would chime in. He has been anti drm for a long time and I can say that predicted Amazon's tactics once it gets a monopoly.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...poly-or-j.html

I stopped reading after:

Amazon's strategy (as I noted in 2012) is to squat on the distribution channel, artificially subsidize the price of ebooks ("dumping" or predatory pricing) to get consumers hooked, rely on DRM on the walled garden of the Kindle store to lock consumers onto their platform

I thought he was an author and did his research before writing on his blog atleast

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by din155

I stopped reading after:
I thought he was an author and did his research before writing on his blog atleast

I wasn't too impressed with it either. A lot of people confuse DRM with proprietary platform. The proprietary platform is actually a bigger deal to transferring books or reading on any device. Not that I love DRM either, but that isn't an "Amazon only" thing. I find the ePUB DRM and the changes they are trying to make more of a problem than Amazon's DRM.

I still haven't seen a single article ask whether Amazon has the right to sell pre-orders without a contract in place. And saying that Amazon is raising the prices of certain books to list price...well, hey, nothing stopping Hachette from lowing the price to make them competitive. I'm not a believe that Amazon is wonderful and roses, but I do wish we'd see some better reporting on this. Instead of asking questions or intelligently reporting, people are just spouting what they read elsewhere.

If an author is mad at Amazon, link to other retailers. Go do a book signing with a bunch of your friends. Go buy a book or three from Kobo or B&N.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I still haven't seen a single article ask whether Amazon has the right to sell pre-orders without a contract in place. And saying that Amazon is raising the prices of certain books to list price...well, hey, nothing stopping Hachette from lowing the price to make them competitive.

It would actually be illegal in the UK for the manufacturer to set the price of the product. A retailer has the legal right to sell the product for any price they wish to, whether that be higher or lower than the manufacturer's recommended retail price. I don't know if US law differs in this regard.

I know at one time the publishers tried to get around this by claiming that Amazon were acting as their agent, rather than as a retailer (an agent DOESN'T have the right to change the price), but wasn't this ruled to be invalid as a part of the "agency pricing" court case?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It would actually be illegal in the UK for the manufacturer to set the price of the product. A retailer has the legal right to sell the product for any price they wish to, whether that be higher or lower than the manufacturer's recommended retail price. I don't know if US law differs in this regard.

I know at one time the publishers tried to get around this by claiming that Amazon were acting as their agent, rather than as a retailer (an agent DOESN'T have the right to change the price), but wasn't this ruled to be invalid as a part of the "agency pricing" court case?

I believe it was ruled invalid. But Hachette could change the list price (even if it is just recommended). Amazon isn't going to want to price higher than competitors so they'd likely then list it at whatever. But see, Hachette doesn't want to lower book prices--they want Amazon to take the hit on discounts. So while people are screaming that AMazon raised the prices, what they really mean is Amazon stopped discounting--but it isn't as though other retailers always discount. Those discounts are discretionary.

AMazon used to discount my ebooks now and then--this difference came out of their share of the profit, not mine. They STILL discount the print copies from my list price. When they stopped discounting my ebooks, did you see me writing articles claiming they were the bastard child from the kingdoms of chaos out to rule the world? No. If they stopped discounting my print books, that would mean they stopped discounting my print books. That does not equate to "raising the price of my books." Yes, the price would go up, but my list price is still my list price. These articles are highly misleading. Amazon never told me that if I do x or y, my books would be discounted. I'm betting it isn't in a contract with Hachette that they get guaranteed discounts either.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It would actually be illegal in the UK for the manufacturer to set the price of the product. A retailer has the legal right to sell the product for any price they wish to, whether that be higher or lower than the manufacturer's recommended retail price. I don't know if US law differs in this regard.

To the best of my knowledge for the US a manufacturer may set an MSRP, manufacturers suggested retail price, and in certain circumstances my also set a minimum retail price.

It gets tricky in that while an MSRP isn't something a store is required to charge it is at the same time legal for a manufacturer to terminate business with a retailer who prices below MSRP if they wish to. If the manufacturer and retailer get together and agree that a certain price will be charged it is then considered price fixing.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I believe it was ruled invalid. But Hachette could change the list price (even if it is just recommended). Amazon isn't going to want to price higher than competitors so they'd likely then list it at whatever. But see, Hachette doesn't want to lower book prices--they want Amazon to take the hit on discounts. So while people are screaming that AMazon raised the prices, what they really mean is Amazon stopped discounting--but it isn't as though other retailers always discount. Those discounts are discretionary.

AMazon used to discount my ebooks now and then--this difference came out of their share of the profit, not mine. They STILL discount the print copies from my list price. When they stopped discounting my ebooks, did you see me writing articles claiming they were the bastard child from the kingdoms of chaos out to rule the world? No. If they stopped discounting my print books, that would mean they stopped discounting my print books. That does not equate to "raising the price of my books." Yes, the price would go up, but my list price is still my list price. These articles are highly misleading. Amazon never told me that if I do x or y, my books would be discounted. I'm betting it isn't in a contract with Hachette that they get guaranteed discounts either.

So Hachette are whining about the fact that Amazon are refusing to discount books out of their cut of the retail price? My heart bleeds for the poor dears. How obvious it is now that Amazon are acting in an evil manner!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

It gets tricky in that while an MSRP isn't something a store is required to charge it is at the same time legal for a manufacturer to terminate business with a retailer who prices below MSRP if they wish to.

That specific practice was ruled to be illegal in the UK some years ago. If memory serves me correctly, the case involved TV manufacturers who refused to supply their goods to retailers who sold at discounted prices, and that was ruled by the courts to be an unlawful restraint of trade.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So Hachette are whining about the fact that Amazon are refusing to discount books out of their cut of the retail price? My heart bleeds for the poor dears. How obvious it is now that Amazon are acting in an evil manner!

And don't get me wrong--I feel for the authors because they are caught in the middle with no way to really change any of it. But writing articles about it complaining about Amazon probably isn't the best strategy. Do a giveaway gift cert to B&N or Kobo or just give away books from your blog? Maybe giving away books or such won't either, but it seems like it might be slightly more positive. If you're mad that Amazon is the main retailer where people buy your books complaining isn't likely to change it. Getting other retailers to somehow capitalize on the issue...maybe it wouldn't work. I dunno. I'm Miss Ideas over here, but Ideas are like dust bunnies. Got lots of'm.

[din155]

In any case publishers have option to sell more with other retailers, lower the prices by dropping DRM (don’t pay the Adobe tax), and request their authors to publicize these other retailers on their blogs. If the publishers are trying to gather support with such blogs, then Good Luck to them and to the authors who write such blogs.

But I guess mud-slinging is equally fun!