Amazon vs Hachette

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

They could all get together and create a Big 5 Bookstore with set prices

Then they would halt all wholesale sales and force all consumers to buy only from the B5B

They most certainly could, and that's just one of the things that I don't understand about the Big 5. They should be falling all over ebooks. No used books sales. No sharing of books with your best friend. Every copy that is read *should* be paid for. If they'd just get behind ebooks, they could be rolling in profit. But no. We'll just cling to our old way of doing business, piss off readers and authors and finally die a slow lingering death.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

They could all get together and create a Big 5 Bookstore with set prices

Then they would halt all wholesale sales and force all consumers to buy only from the B5B

Well, they could at least TRY to take over the world if they are so annoyed at their resellers/retailers. I know some of the big 5 have tried limited shops/promos. Just seems to me they stay in the same old pattern without really trying new things.

I'm glad they don't control prices more than they already do though...

[Manabi]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

It seems like it's too late for that to me. Who knows how long they would continue to sell ebooks. I wouldn't want to take a chance they would shut down and leave me without my books if they decided it wasn't working out. I always download my purchases and disinfect anyway so that wouldn't affect me directly anyway. I also don't know if they would sell at a good price either.

There's also the whole aspect of having to have accounts at so many sites to buy all the books you want. I'd pass, that's too big a pain.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

They could all get together and create a Big 5 Bookstore with set prices

Then they would halt all wholesale sales and force all consumers to buy only from the B5B

They probably can't do that, it would almost certainly raise anti-trust issues and get them sued by the Justice Department (again). Even more so if they did it and killed off every competing store like you suggest.

Originally Posted by jgaiser

They most certainly could, and that's just one of the things that I don't understand about the Big 5. They should be falling all over ebooks. No used books sales. No sharing of books with your best friend. Every copy that is read *should* be paid for. If they'd just get behind ebooks, they could be rolling in profit. But no. We'll just cling to our old way of doing business, piss off readers and authors and finally die a slow lingering death.

They could retain their precious p-books and still catch the wave of the future by including an e-book copy with the p-book. Say have a special edition that combines both for a bit extra money, as well as a lower priced p-book alone and e-book alone. That'd help them move toward the future. It'd probably get more people buying e-books too, because more would be willing to experiment when they're getting a physical book along with the e-book. Example pricing:

• Physical book (by itself): $20
• Physical book (with e-book): $24
• E-book: $10

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Technology is moving forward whether publishers like it or not. They'll have to downsize and learn to live with smaller profits. If they can't adapt, then they'll perish.

It seems to me that the publishers were quick to start issuing new titles as eBooks. They also were quick to let them be sold at the same time as hardcover editions -- with the eBooks commonly sold at paperback prices. That, to me, refutes the technophobe meme.

Adobe Digital Editions 3.0 is an example of technology moving forward. Who is it who likes, and dislikes, that? When posters here decry DRM technology, lately I'm seeing the caveat that it's fine for library borrowers like you and me. At least the big publishers aren't saying that affluent book collectors can get their books DRM-free while we hoi pollio get treated otherwise.

As for smaller profits, well, a little less might be good, but publishing profits don't have all that much room to decline. For example, Hachette had that quite comfortable 14 percent profit margin last year, but in each the four previous years, they either barely broke even, or lost money.

The only benefit to me of there being these big publishers is that their advances support creation of heavily researched non-fiction. If downsizing means that advances against non-fiction book proposals are going to decline much more, that would negate the value of those publishers.

It could be inevitable that publishers who support complex long-term book projects will perish the same way that newspaper foreign bureaus and investigative teams have. I hope that's not the downsizing you support.

Genre readers may think big publishers are problematic when the genre books appear to be subsidizing the rest of the operation. I do see non-fiction eBooks that are three times longer than a genre fiction or off-the-cuff advice title, and took ten times longer to write, priced at just thirty percent more. Maybe genre can't keep on subsidizing war reportage and biography like that forever. But so long as there is any kind of business case for it, please keep trying.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

It seems to me that the publishers were quick to start issuing new titles as eBooks. They also were quick to let them be sold at the same time as hardcover editions -- with the eBooks commonly sold at paperback prices. That, to me, refutes the technophobe meme.


Genre readers may think big publishers are problematic when the genre books appear to be subsidizing the rest of the operation. I do see non-fiction eBooks that are three times longer than a genre fiction or off-the-cuff advice title, and took ten times longer to write, priced at just thirty percent more. Maybe genre can't keep on subsidizing war reportage and biography like that forever. But so long as there is any kind of business case for it, please keep trying.

Just because a book is longer, does not automatically mean it took longer to write. In some cases if you know your non-fiction subject well, you may be able to write it quite quickly if you are organized and dedicated.

That's not to belittle the effort that goes into them, but there is no reason these tomes can't be self-published. Sure, you'd have to check the credentials, but that is the case now. Just because it is labeled non-fiction doesn't mean it's legit or well-researched. It's still a pick and choose world.

My point is those books will not go away even if the publishers change.

And I do recall Macmillian trying very hard not to release ebooks at the same time as harbacks and so on. The publishing industry did not embrace ebooks wholeheartedly at all.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

It seems to me that the publishers were quick to start issuing new titles as eBooks. They also were quick to let them be sold at the same time as hardcover editions -- with the eBooks commonly sold at paperback prices. That, to me, refutes the technophobe meme.

Publishers sold eBooks with hardcover editions to retailers for the same amount as the hardcover. If a hardcover came out at $28 then the list price for the eBook was the same for most, if not all, of the big 5 (big 6 at the time). Then both hardcover and eBook would be discounted from that list price to whatever street price a retailer wanted to offer them at. eBooks never came out at the same time as hardcovers for around the average mass market price of $8. It was the retailers cutting into their own profit that were discounting eBooks just like they do with paper books. When agency came along mass market paperbacks and ebooks generally sold for exactly the same $7-$10 price with paperbacks sometimes discounted below list while the eBook couldn't. Same for hardcover more or less. A hardcover with a $14-$17 street price would generally be $13-$15 as an eBook and trade paperbacks with a $10-$12 street price would be $10-$12 as an eBook. Maybe we buy different kinds of books, but that's commonly how things fell out for me personally.

[bgalbrecht]

I would argue that the publishers were technophobes because there were several big 6 publishers that were not releasing most of their books as ebooks until after agency pricing. For example, in the SF genre, I don't think Tor, Ace or Del Rey consistently published ebooks. I knew several SF authors who were frustrated with their publishers because the publisher had the ebook rights and weren't releasing ebook editions.

[DiapDealer]

Looks like Amazon took the Buy button away from Hachette preorders (both Kindle and hardcover). Preorders mind you.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Looks like Amazon took the Buy button away from Hachette preorders (both Kindle and hardcover). Preorders mind you.

They may not have any agreement in place to sell after a certain date.

Thanks Oak for setting me straight on the ebook releases. I know they weren't excited about doing them for a long time.

[DiapDealer]

I like the stance that many Hachette and Little, Brown authors are taking on social media. Some are, of course, raging and flinging invective everywhere, while a surprising number are taking the more pragmatic approach of simply reminding readers about the many other places their books are available for preorder and purchase.

I admit I'm a bit baffled, though, why many outraged authors are recommending B&N. Why do so many feel justified in putting their allegiance behind a corporation whose only real "virtue" was in failing to become the biggest bully on the block (though not through lack of trying)?

Is it a "what have you NOT done to me lately" mentality, perhaps?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I like the stance that many Hachette and Little, Brown authors are taking on social media. Some are, of course, raging and flinging invective everywhere, while a surprising number are taking the more pragmatic approach of simply reminding readers about the many other places their books are available for preorder and purchase.

I admit I'm a bit baffled, though, why many outraged authors are recommending B&N. Why do so many feel justified in putting their allegiance behind a corporation whose only real "virtue" was in failing to become the biggest bully on the block (though not through lack of trying)?

Is it a "what have you NOT done to me lately" mentality, perhaps?

More likely they've been treated well by B&N at a book signing or the like. They may have a more personal relationship with some retailers. My B&N doesn't do signings and won't carry bookmarks, etc for any author large or small. But I think they are an oddball store because one of the B&N that is quite a distance from me hosts authors and speakers all the time. They have a rather large Sisters in Crime group that meets there once a quarter and there are always authors around.

Of course, I am speculating madly with my reasoning. But I'm a writer. I make things up sometimes...

[leebase]

Amazon raises the ante - refusing to sell some Hachette titles like the latest one from JK Rawling: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...ype=blogs&_r=0

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by leebase

Amazon raises the ante - refusing to sell some Hachette titles like the latest one from JK Rawling: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...ype=blogs&_r=0

Are ya even paying attention to your own thread? It's only pre-orders that are coming up as unavailable. There's technically nothing to "sell" yet. Existing Hachette titles are still being sold.

[eschwartz]

Hmm, both that NYTimes article and the Forbes one in the OP are comparing this in some ridiculous fashion to removing the buy buttons for MacMillan during the price-fixing wars.

[Lbooker]

I liked this summary at Slashdot :
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...inst-hachette/
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/10/te...ette-spat.html
"Amazon, under fire in much of the literary community for energetically discouraging customers from buying books from the publisher Hachette, has abruptly escalated the battle. The retailer began refusing orders late Thursday for coming Hachette books, including J.K. Rowling's new novel. The paperback edition of Brad Stone's The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon — a book Amazon disliked so much it denounced it — is suddenly listed as 'unavailable.' In some cases, even the pages promoting the books have disappeared. Anne Rivers Siddons's new novel, The Girls of August, coming in July, no longer has a page for the physical book or even the Kindle edition. Only the audio edition is still being sold (for more than $60). Otherwise it is as if it did not exist. Amazon is also flexing its muscles in Germany, delaying deliveries of books issued by Bonnier, a major publisher."