Where would you start in explaining ebooks to a non-techie total newbie?

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Quite a lot of people I know wander around the bookshop at lunch, make a note of what they like, then order it from somewhere cheaper online...

[zelda_pinwheel]

here is one example, and there was much discussion over here as well.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

But for some people the right atmosphere is conducive to being able to let go enough to get lost in the book. I know people who can't read on a train because they're worried about missing their stop, and therefore aren't able to get into whatever it is they're reading because of that worry.

Personally, I set my phone's vibrating alarm to go off at the stop before mine, so I can read without concern, and I won't miss my stop. (Because I've done that, too! "Excuse me, I'm... where?") I always say, if people want to do something, they can figure out a way to do it. If they can't, then they just don't want to do it that much...

I understand that people have different attention levels, and need more or less distraction when they do something like reading. My experience has been that, for many people who value the specific sensory experience of "enjoying a good book," and cannot tune out the distractions (my wife, for instance), e-books are often too distracting in themselves (too different than the bound reams of paper they associate with the experience), and when I get that impression, like I said, I don't push it on them.

[Slite]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

here is one example, and there was much discussion over here as well.

Those are way cool ideas and something I would love too see implemented!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

combining a physical bookstore with an in-store ebook kiosk where people could purchase and download their choices after browsing in the shelves would make a lot of people reeeeeallly happy. and other features could even be added.

I agree. An e-book kiosk for every book in their store (and a few that are off the shelves) would make bookstores much more useful to me.

Personally, I get minimal enjoyment out of bookstores these days. Too many of the books I'm looking for aren't on the shelves any more (they've been removed after 2-3 weeks)... forcing books out of too-tightly-packed shelves, to see artwork that (really) looks like every other book on the shelf... trying to turn my head sideways to read a shelf-full of titles... and no bookstore personnel who know me, know what I like, and can recommend books that they have seen that they are sure I would like. I find it hard to find books I want in modern bookstores. Honestly, I can take them or leave them.

But if I could also research for books at a kiosk, with experienced personnel assisting me, and download them to my PDA and go, I'd be hanging out there a lot more often.

[nekokami]

And if you could get a nice latte or a pot of single-estate Darjeeling tea while you're there... what's not to like?

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

It's not that it offends me. But to me, reading is reading. Not smelling or touching or hearing, just reading.

When I get into a story, it doesn't matter whether it is on paper or a screen, or whether I'm in front of a roaring fire or on a commuter train, day or night, the beach or the laundromat, summer or winter... I don't notice any of that stuff when I'm in the story.

To me, anyone who can only read when they are in a particular sensory environment... don't seem to be fully tuning into the story itself as much as they are tuning into (or failing to tune out) everything else around them. And I hope that doesn't offend any of you, that's just my feeling. Its not that they can only read that way, its the experience is more meaningful, and connected.

So when someone tells me they refuse to try an e-book, because they won't give up their sensory environment, I realize that we are not speaking about the same things. I am speaking about reading stories. They are speaking about a specific combination of sensory experiences that they collectively call "enjoying a good book," but which is not the same thing as "reading stories." Note that I am not criticizing what they do, just accepting that they are two different things.

I don't want to push e-books at someone who is more concerned about the comfort of their armchair or the sweetness of their tea, or how an electronic device might upset that delicate balance. I want to promote e-books to someone who appreciates the advantages of e-books to reading stories.

See, I figure e-books are an inevitability... sooner or later, most everyone will be using e-books of some kind or another. There's no point rushing everyone into it. So I just concentrate on the people who are likely to get something positive out of the experience now, and let the big marketers worry about how to swing the masses their way.



As someone who feels the drama and wonder of a book are the same whether it is on paper or a screen, I could never feel that way. Give me the stories, in any format, and we're good.

Part of the joy of learning to read is the interaction with the colorful pages of juvenile books.

The more you can get a child to take an interest in what is being read to them, the easier and more enjoyable it is for them the learn to read.
Discussing what is happening on each page is essential to their comprehension and ability to understand the process.

You will never get that same 'wonder' learning to read on an e-book device.
Pop up books, (have you seen some of those lately? Very detailed), fuzzy books, those huge coffee table books, atlases, how do you replicate those on a device?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

You will never get that same 'wonder' learning to read on an e-book device.
Pop up books, (have you seen some of those lately? Very detailed), fuzzy books, those huge coffee table books, atlases, how do you replicate those on a device?

Can you say 'animation'? Can you say 'interactive'? And there are still computer monitors... not all e-books have to be read on a Kindle. E-books can do 'wonder' just fine. No, it's not "the same." But that doesn't make it bad.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Can you say 'animation'? Can you say 'interactive'? And there are still computer monitors... not all e-books have to be read on a Kindle. E-books can do 'wonder' just fine. No, it's not "the same." But that doesn't make it bad.

Yes, I can say "animation" and "interactive". Can you say "data processor"?

Because what you are describing is just that. What a sad world it would be to plop a child in front of a computer, no matter how 'interactive', to learn how to read. Where's the tactile experience? Where's the joy of sitting with a parent or teacher and sharing the reading experience, turning each page?

You don't need electricity or internet access to read a book. You can read one any time, any place.......and not worry about a battery failing, or breaking it when you drop it.

e-book readers have their place. But they are not an end-all solution.

They can, and should, co-exists with paper books, not replace them.

Why do I keep thinking of that scene in "The Time Machine", where the lead character discovers an ancient library, and the books crumble in his hand?

A world without paper books? Unimaginable.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

What a sad world it would be to plop a child in front of a computer, no matter how 'interactive', to learn how to read. Where's the tactile experience? Where's the joy of sitting with a parent or teacher and sharing the reading experience, turning each page?

I don't see it as "sad" at all. Just different. Just as it's different to have a child read a book, rather than reciting history orally as many traditions still do. Do you feel your life has been irrevocably diminished because your parents didn't sing your family history to you?

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Why do I keep thinking of that scene in "The Time Machine", where the lead character discovers an ancient library, and the books crumble in his hand?

A world without paper books? Unimaginable.

Almost as unimaginable as a world in which irreplaceable literature can be lost as easily as leaving it out in the air.

What's most important in a book isn't the paper... it's the knowledge. I'd gladly sacrifice paper usage and keep the knowledge.

I don't despise paper. But paper is a product from a vanishing and threatened resource, partly because there are close to 7 billion of us (and growing) making demands upon it. Like many other resources, we can't keep using paper as we always have... it won't take but a few billion more people's demands, and we'll just wipe them out. So we're going to have to get used to seeing a lot less paper about, sooner or later. Or we'll have to get used to the worlds of Soylent Green and Silent Running.

I already sacrifice certain experiences and activities, for the sake of the planet, and I'm personally willing to sacrifice the tactile experience of handling paper for the sake of having trees. I see it as a lot better than having tons of books around, and not a single tree in sight.

[desertgrandma]

"I don't see it as "sad" at all. Just different. Just as it's different to have a child read a book, rather than reciting history orally as many traditions still do. Do you feel your life has been irrevocably diminished because your parents didn't sing your family history to you?"


No, because there was still human interaction. THATS the problem here. Computers are great, but not a substitute for a child sitting close to some one and exchanging thoughts about what was just read.
And at the same time, its an excellent way to point out different ways of thinking, why you should, or shouldn't do something. All computers can do is state facts.


Almost as unimaginable as a world in which irreplaceable literature can be lost as easily as leaving it out in the air. Again, co-exist. Books can be reprinted for future generations to enjoy.

What's most important in a book isn't the paper... it's the knowledge. I'd gladly sacrifice paper usage and keep the knowledge.
I could not disagree with you more. The paper is important. The simple act of holding a book is empowering. Holding a book reader, you may have 1000 books loaded, but its just a device.

I don't despise paper. But paper is a product from a vanishing and threatened resource, partly because there are close to 7 billion of us (and growing) making demands upon it. Like many other resources, we can't keep using paper as we always have... it won't take but a few billion more people's demands, and we'll just wipe them out. So we're going to have to get used to seeing a lot less paper about, sooner or later. Or we'll have to get used to the worlds of Soylent Green and Silent Running. Oh, Puleeze!

I already sacrifice certain experiences and activities, for the sake of the planet, and I'm personally willing to sacrifice the tactile experience of handling paper for the sake of having trees. I see it as a lot better than having tons of books around, and not a single tree in sight.
[COLOR="Red"]Thats absurd
I doubt books are the reason the trees are vanishing. Is the Amazon being cut down for books? Do we send our best wood to Japan and other places for making books? Its human greed, pure and simple.

This is going nowhere. I don't think books should ever be replaced by bookreaders. You think they should. Fine.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

No, because there was still human interaction. THATS the problem here. Computers are great, but not a substitute for a child sitting close to some one and exchanging thoughts about what was just read.
And at the same time, its an excellent way to point out different ways of thinking, why you should, or shouldn't do something. All computers can do is state facts.

I don't see how reading from a device or a computer precludes this, especially as they get smaller and lighter. I could sit with a child reading from a tablet PC just fine. As time goes on, I think dedicated reading devices will go away. It's mostly a matter of screen technology. When we get a readable, power-conservative, lightweight screen that can handle the demands of more general applications, we'll see more integrated devices. They'll be color and allow for animation and interaction. I still think we'll see physical books for little ones that are more tactile, but we'll also see a lot of kids books that are electronic.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Alisa

I don't see how reading from a device or a computer precludes this, especially as they get smaller and lighter. I could sit with a child reading from a tablet PC just fine. As time goes on, I think dedicated reading devices will go away. It's mostly a matter of screen technology. When we get a readable, power-conservative, lightweight screen that can handle the demands of more general applications, we'll see more integrated devices. They'll be color and allow for animation and interaction. I still think we'll see physical books for little ones that are more tactile, but we'll also see a lot of kids books that are electronic.

So when you tuck your child into bed and ask "What shall we read tonight" he does what. Run to the shelf and pick which book strikes his fancy or hand you the tablet pc? Wouldn't it be more stimulating to choose from a stack of books than a table of contents?

Certainly, once a child has learned to read on his own, and prefers to read by himself, the reader is great.

But hopefully he'll always treasure those old fashioned, finger-smudged, maybe even marked and torn books.
Right now I'm reading books to my 5 yr old granddaughter that belonged to my daughter. And with care, she'll be reading them to her daughter.
The connection is priceless.

[nekokami]

Sounds like we've got a new topic to add to the list of "never-ending debates." Not that that's a bad thing.

I'm in the "human interaction and content matter, not paper" camp, myself, but I like living in a world with multiple points of view.