News Corp buys Harlequin

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Would you say, then, that "Romeo and Juliet" is not a romance, simply because it doesn't have a happy ending? I'd strongly disagree with that - for me, it's the STORY that makes it a romance, not the outcome.

I would put that in the "Tragedy" genre. I have to go look at the library of congress definitions though because I have no idea if that is a real category. I PERSONALLY would not consider it a romance.

And therein lies the rub. Everyone has their own definitions to some extent. While I consider DeLeon to write mysteries with a romantic subplot, because the "romantic" elements are mostly hinted at in the first two volumes, I am pretty sure many romance fans would never label it romance. But if you are shelving the thing and you define two genres for it...well, definitely mystery. From that point, it could get hairy.

And thriller readers are probably NOT going to want the DeLeon classified as mystery. Yes, there is a murder. Yes, the mystery is solved. But it's not a classic mystery, it's a cozy and to some, it probably doesn't count!

I'm going to go check on that classic and see what my library has it labeled.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I would put that in the "Tragedy" genre.

It is a tragedy, but it's also a romance (IMHO). Genres don't have to be unique. I'd personally regard "Romeo and Juliet" as being one of the "definitive" love stories of English literature.

[BearMountainBooks]

Well after sorting through all the graphic novels with that title...geez.

If I am reading the catalog card right, it is listed under "Tragedies."

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is a tragedy, but it's also a romance (IMHO). Genres don't have to be unique. I'd personally regard "Romeo and Juliet" as being one of the "definitive" love stories of English literature.

And therein lies the problem. Generally when choosing a genre, you get one or two choices. So where to shelf it? What to pick when you are uploading your most erudite thoughts on Romeo and Juliet along with a copy of the play??? You might choose romance. I'd choose Tragedy...a publisher would probably want to choose both along with urban fantasy because that's a hot genre right now...

Amazon used to allow 5 genres for each title. That left a lot of room for interpretation. They now allow only two. If you are a library and have to shelf a book, you have to pick one and if you haven't read the book...and your own opinion also plays a part...along with how the publisher has filed info...there's going to be some on the shelf that maybe don't belong.

And this doesn't even bring in the guy/gal versions of thinking, which can also color things (and I view this as a good thing, not a bad thing.)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

If I am reading the catalog card right, it is listed under "Tragedies."

Yes. Shakespeare's plays are divided into three groups: histories, comedies, and tragedies, and "Romeo and Juliet" is a tragedy, but it is most assuredly ALSO a love story - a romance.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes. Shakespeare's plays are divided into three groups: histories, comedies, and tragedies, and "Romeo and Juliet" is a tragedy, but it is most assuredly ALSO a love story - a romance.

Not to me. I mean, I get why you say that, but to me it's a couple of idiot kids making bad decisions and the whole thing is full of that angst and drama we were complaining about earlier (well, I was complaining, anyway). Look, I hated the thing. I'm not even all that fond of Mark Knopfler's version of it, but if one HAS to have such a theme, his song is the better choice. And more realistic too.

I do see how it can be considered a love story or a romance, but it's not romantic, it's a tragedy.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Not to me. I mean, I get why you say that, but to me it's a couple of idiot kids making bad decisions and the whole thing is full of that angst and drama we were complaining about earlier (well, I was complaining, anyway). Look, I hated the thing. I'm not even all that fond of Mark Knopfler's version of it, but if one HAS to have such a theme, his song is the better choice. And more realistic too.

I do see how it can be considered a love story or a romance, but it's not romantic, it's a tragedy.

We must agree to differ. I strongly suspect that, in another couple of centuries, "Romeo and Juliet" will continue to be regarded as one of the great works of English literature, while Mr Knoplfler's song ... will not.

[BearMountainBooks]

I still hate it. And for a song, it's done all right. He probably made more money from it than did Shakespeare...

And I'm good with agreeing to differ. I don't think readers have to like the same things or even agree on things that they read!

[copyrite]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Would you say, then, that "Romeo and Juliet" is not a romance, simply because it doesn't have a happy ending? I'd strongly disagree with that - for me, it's the STORY that makes it a romance, not the outcome.

I think to those that primarily read romance, an inherent part of the definition means a HEA. Possibly to those that don't, any elements of romance in a story make it *duh* a romance?

And now dagnabit I'm going to have to go find a copy of that song to hopefully get the earworm outta my head! Thanks!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by copyrite

I think to those that primarily read romance, an inherent part of the definition means a HEA. Possibly to those that don't, any elements of romance in a story make it *duh* a romance?

R&J does not merely have "elements of romance" - the love story is the primary plot. I'm truly baffled how it could conceivably not be regarded as a romance.

[copyrite]

I'll settle for calling it a tragic romance. I'm an unashamed lover of the HEA... there's too much of the tragedy bit in real life.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Not to me. I mean, I get why you say that, but to me it's a couple of idiot kids making bad decisions and the whole thing is full of that angst and drama we were complaining about earlier (well, I was complaining, anyway).

My preteen said to me: "You know - Romeo's kinda a di*k." I had to agree with him.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

R&J does not merely have "elements of romance" - the love story is the primary plot. I'm truly baffled how it could conceivably not be regarded as a romance.

Well, I'm not sure about that. The primary plot is two kids trying to escape parental/society controls to be together. Love by some definitions is sacrificing for someone else. These two are sort of sacrificing their cushy lives (although they display such actions as to not be really in tune with what those sacrifices mean...) but they aren't exactly romantic about it. They're more drama queens and such.

So it is primarily a story of bad, tragic decisions. There's a couple of touching "longing" scenes, but it's just not very romantic to kill yourself for someone. To me.

But I do see how it could be labeled that way. I just don't happen to label it that way.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Would you say, then, that "Romeo and Juliet" is not a romance, simply because it doesn't have a happy ending? I'd strongly disagree with that - for me, it's the STORY that makes it a romance, not the outcome.

Not not a romance it's a Love Story there is a huge difference. Romance genre always has a Happy ending.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Not not a romance it's a Love Story there is a huge difference. Romance genre always has a Happy ending.

My dictionary defines "romance" as:

a novel or other prose narrative depicting heroic or marvelous deeds, pageantry, romantic exploits, etc., usually in a historical or imaginary setting.

No mention of a "happy ending" there.