Dangerously e-books: How do I know if my ebooks have been altered?

[susan_cassidy]

You'd still have to upload the book to somewhere. It wouldn't let you overwrite one of Harry'Ts books, I don't think, for example. It would be a different file, published by someone else.

[Catlady]

Oh lord.

It's simple. I get a digital copy of a public domain book. I tweak it to make it suit my tastes--changing words, punctuation, sentence structure, whatever. Maybe I have an agenda, maybe I just think I'm making it better. I upload it to the library here, to my Web page, to other sites. People download it. They don't know that I've made changes. They think they're reading the book the author published way back when, but they're not. They're reading my bastardized version..

[DiapDealer]

and...?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Oh lord.

It's simple. I get a digital copy of a public domain book. I tweak it to make it suit my tastes--changing words, punctuation, sentence structure, whatever. Maybe I have an agenda, maybe I just think I'm making it better. I upload it to the library here, to my Web page, to other sites. People download it. They don't know that I've made changes. They think they're reading the book the author published way back when, but they're not. They're reading my bastardized version..

Yep. That's precisely what you're perfectly entitled to do with a public domain book. As I said previously, if you want guaranteed fidelity to what the author wrote, buy the "Penguin Classics" edition.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yep. That's precisely what you're perfectly entitled to do with a public domain book. As I said previously, if you want guaranteed fidelity to what the author wrote, buy the "Penguin Classics" edition.

I think Catlady's concern is that some people, less knowledgeable about the public domain, would get the book she described, and think it was the book as originally published.

That might happen, but personally I'm not too worried about it. Those who really care about reading the book as originally published can put in the effort to ensure that's what they get.

[Teyrnon]

Originally Posted by Catlady

It's simple. I get a digital copy of a public domain book. I tweak it to make it suit my tastes--changing words, punctuation, sentence structure, whatever. Maybe I have an agenda, maybe I just think I'm making it better. I upload it to the library here, to my Web page, to other sites. People download it. They don't know that I've made changes. They think they're reading the book the author published way back when, but they're not. They're reading my bastardized version..

Yes, that can happen but it's nothing new. People have been editing and reworking works like that for pretty much as long as the written word has existed. The Jefferson Bible comes to mind as a famous historical example. There are others. When someone releases such a personalized edition of something it won't make the older editions disappear. When it happens it'll be noticed and remarked upon.

What it comes down to is that the reader needs to be aware of the sources. Someone releasing such bastardized editions of works of literature would likely have a reputation after a time. If you want to be sure of what you're getting then only accept the work from a source you trust.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yep. That's precisely what you're perfectly entitled to do with a public domain book. As I said previously, if you want guaranteed fidelity to what the author wrote, buy the "Penguin Classics" edition.

In some countries the non-commercial copyright is still valid so you cannot change the book and publish it as the original from the author.

And even if it is allowed legally in some countries I think it is very immoral.

[HarryT]

What do you mean by "non-commercial copyright", Tommy? I haven't come across that expression before.

[Catlady]

Yeah, right, all of us who want the own and read public domain books go and buy them from Penguin instead of getting them for free.

One more time: It is easier, and therefore more likely, for digital books to be altered without anyone knowing, than it is for physical books to be altered without anyone knowing.

That's it. If you don't care about it, fine. I do care about it.

Now I'm outa here.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What do you mean by "non-commercial copyright", Tommy? I haven't come across that expression before.

Well, the term in Swedish is "ideell upphovsrätt" and I do not know what the English correct term is. But it correspons roughly to 6bis in the Berne convetnion which say that: "Independently of the author’s economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to, the said work, which would be prejudicial to his honor or reputation."

I thought that kind of copyright was longer or never ended in many countries. But when checking now I am unsure. I thought is was not time limited.

What is true is that in most European countries the concept public domain does not exist in law so during the copyright time it is impossible to place a work in the "public domain" since the 6bis parapgraph always holds.

[Teyrnon]

Originally Posted by Catlady

One more time: It is easier, and therefore more likely, for digital books to be altered without anyone knowing, than it is for physical books to be altered without anyone knowing.

Easier, sure but I'm not sure it's more likely. What motivation would someone have for this in a clandestine fashion? I suspect anyone who'd actually put that much effort into it would claim credit for their work. At the very least most would add an editor's credit to what they publish. Seems to me they'd want to let people know they've 'improved' it. I doubt we'll be seeing a rash of adulterated classics being passed off as the 'one true version of the author's words and vision' any time soon.

I'm not saying you should only buy Penguin editions. What I am suggesting is that we should bear in mind where something is coming from. I dare say the lion's share of the ebooks you'd find on this site are faithful reproductions of the original text or at least the text of the edition worked from.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Yeah, right, all of us who want the own and read public domain books go and buy them from Penguin instead of getting them for free.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but that's exactly what I do. Their wonderful introductory essays and footnotes allow one to get so much more out of the book than the raw text alone. You may perhaps have noticed that almost all the proof-read classics that I've uploaded to the MR library have been proofed against the "Penguin Classics" edition.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by tompe

I thought that kind of copyright was longer or never ended in many countries. But when checking now I am unsure. I thought is was not time limited.

I found it now. In Sweden an a lot of other European countries this moral copyright has no time limit and you cannot give it away or remove it.

So you are not allowed to signifiantly change work and publish it as the work of an author even if the commercial copyright has expired.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

I found it now. In Sweden an a lot of other European contries this moral copyright has not time limit and you cannot give it away or remove it.

So you are not allowed to signifiantly change work and publish it as the work of an author event if the commercial copyright has expired.

Interesting - that's something I hadn't come across before. I'm absolutely certain that no such concept exists in English law. Once a work enters the public domain, anyone is free to do whatever they wish with it, with no restrictions whatsoever.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Interesting - that's something I hadn't come across before. I'm absolutely certain that no such concept exists in English law. Once a work enters the public domain, anyone is free to do whatever they wish with it, with no restrictions whatsoever.

Yes, in US and UK the moral copyright expires.

The wikipedia article for moral copyright is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights

There is a reference to UK law on the wiki page.