just because you have written a book does not make you an author

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

In short, the buyers/readers create the segregation themselves. As soon one or two comments complain about huge mistakes, the book will sink. It's the old thing again: if you have a lot already, it's easy to get more of it. (Such as sales, rating, or even money.)

Of course, it will only sink if it ever floated in the first place. Most of the really bad books get few if any people to read them in the first place.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by moonshot

I have never read a fantasy or vampire book apart from Dracula, which is a classic. But that's is not to say I would not enjoy one if I did read it. 'Half Bad' is the latest vampire book, again I referred to it a few posts ago. The author was interviewed last week on the BBC. It was her first book, the script was accepted straight away and the film rights were bought before the book even got released. Vampires must be 'hot' at the moment.

"Hot" is the wrong term for it. You should have said "blazing hot", or "has expanded to stratospheric proportions." Since Twilight came out, "Vampire Romance" is it's own genre, but most publishers (and sites) have not yet realized it. Both the Fantasy and Romance genres are ***SWAMPED WITH THAT UTTER CRAP***.

===

To make my opinion on the genre clear so all doubt may be forever removed, I've accentuated it to some small degree. (Damn. Reading Professor Challenger seems to have had some unintended side-effects with regard to my way of expressing myself )

Even the best and most masterfully constructed Vampire Romance novel wouldn't be for me. I've only read a part of Twilight, but it just feels wrong to me. Vampires aren't supposed to be like that; not for me, at least.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

"Hot" is the wrong term for it. You should have said "blazing hot", or "has expanded to stratospheric proportions." Since Twilight came out, "Vampire Romance" is it's own genre, but most publishers (and sites) have not yet realized it. Both the Fantasy and Romance genres are ***SWAMPED WITH THAT UTTER CRAP***.

===

To make my opinion on the genre clear so all doubt may be forever removed, I've accentuated it to some small degree. (Damn. Reading Professor Challenger seems to have had some unintended side-effects with regards to my way of expressing myself )

Even the best and most masterfully constructed Vampire Romance novel wouldn't be for e. I've only read a part of Twilight, but it just feels wrong to me. Vampires aren't supposed to be like that; not for me, at least.

I can't get over the "dead" part. I don't care if it is zombie or vampire--what the hell is so sexy about DEAD? AND, who is going to take out the trash in the morning? Don't give me that, "The sunlight burns my skin" excuse! Hmph.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The only advantage would lie with the BPH's, because if they manage to create a segregation, then they would effectively stick a "bad" badge onto selfpub.

I am sure it isn't but it feels like a form of discrimination to me which is what I think you mean?

I admire anyone (well almost anyone) with the energy and jam to put a book out there. Might be crap, but unless plagiarism etc. it takes effort. Stifling creativity is not a good thing.

Helen

[speakingtohe]

I don't read paranormal romance but I do like urban fantasy which is related. Lot of people I know love paranormal romance and they are not all young or naïve. My employer who has a very successful business and several million in additional property which she and her husband acquired through sheer hard work, loves the Twilight books. I avoid them like the plague, but I did read a lot of Harlequins many years ago so maybe I would like them. (Thought sends chills down my spine however). I am firmly convinced by the number of people who read the Twilight books in Teslin who had never read a book for enjoyment before that they are not a bad thing.


Helen

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I admire anyone (well almost anyone) with the energy and jam to put a book out there. Might be crap, but unless plagiarism etc. it takes effort. Stifling creativity is not a good thing.

Helen

+1

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

"Hot" is the wrong term for it. You should have said "blazing hot", or "has expanded to stratospheric proportions." Since Twilight came out, "Vampire Romance" is it's own genre, but most publishers (and sites) have not yet realized it. Both the Fantasy and Romance genres are ***SWAMPED WITH THAT UTTER CRAP***.

===

To make my opinion on the genre clear so all doubt may be forever removed, I've accentuated it to some small degree. (Damn. Reading Professor Challenger seems to have had some unintended side-effects with regard to my way of expressing myself )

Even the best and most masterfully constructed Vampire Romance novel wouldn't be for me. I've only read a part of Twilight, but it just feels wrong to me. Vampires aren't supposed to be like that; not for me, at least.

You are generally correct but TWILIGHT was a *response* to the immense popularity of both vampire and werewolf paranormal romances over the past few decades, going back to the 90s and beyond.

Most of those titles, going back to Anne Rice's works, play up the horror and/or erotic aspects of the trope and Ms Meyer pointedly wanted to retain the romance while toning down the mature aspects. A wise business decision that expanded the vampire lover trope into the YA market and led to the billion dollar box office of the movie series.

As far back as 2004, the trope was being spoofed to great effect. One of the most popular spoofs has spawned over a dozen volumes in the last ten years: Mary Janice Davidson's UNDEAD series (aka: Betsy, Queen of vampires series).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undead_(series)

Vampire fiction nowadays is really an industry unto itself, ranging from horror to romance, humor, YA, and even the fringes of SF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_...rk_(2010_novel)

And, mind you, that is just within the bounds of traditional publishing.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

You are generally correct but TWILIGHT was a *response* to the immense popularity of both vampire and werewolf paranormal romances over the past few decades, going back to the 90s and beyond.

Wait. What? There's more?!

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Wait. What? There's more?!

I hear you and second the motion.
Different reasons, most likely; same conclusion.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Even the best and most masterfully constructed Vampire Romance novel wouldn't be for me.

Take out "vampire" and that sentence would describe me. I wish Amazon would provide more customization. I could tell the site that I don't like romance, thenceforth all romance books would disappear from my searches and browsing. I was once able to scour the SF and Fantasy offerings without having to wade through the romance, I'd like those halcyon days back.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Fluribus

Take out "vampire" and that sentence would describe me. I wish Amazon would provide more customization. I could tell the site that I don't like romance, thenceforth all romance books would disappear from my searches and browsing. I was once able to scour the SF and Fantasy offerings without having to wade through the romance, I'd like those halcyon days back.

Science fiction, romance, sparkly vampires, urban fantasy, zombies--begone!

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Science fiction, romance, sparkly vampires, urban fantasy, zombies--begone!

Have you read many compelling stories about cats of late? You might like Christa Wolf's "Revised Philosophy of a Tomcat," if you don't know it already.

[LovesMacs]

Originally Posted by Fluribus

Take out "vampire" and that sentence would describe me. I wish Amazon would provide more customization. I could tell the site that I don't like romance, thenceforth all romance books would disappear from my searches and browsing. I was once able to scour the SF and Fantasy offerings without having to wade through the romance, I'd like those halcyon days back.

You seek more granularity, the ability to filter search results with ever-increasing refinement. I'd like that too, and I believe moonshot would also agree.

The problem with this, to my mind, is at least two-fold:

1. At present, Amazon has no need to spend time and money implementing this when its potential return on investment is questionable.

2. More problematic is how books are classified in the first place. I'm speculating here, but I strongly suspect that books sold at Amazon (and probably other sites) are classified by very general tags or fields: fantasy, romance, mystery, etc. with few available subcategories (urban, Regency, procedural, and so on). This much is pretty obvious.

I don't know who assigns these categories, but books often end up in more than one category, whether through ignorance or design. Take a vampire romance: it's obviously a romance but maybe it's a fantasy too. And vampires? Gotta be a horror book. Is it a young adult book? Could be--it won't hurt to put it in that category too! Now that single book has fallen into at least four categories.

Take subgenres like urban fantasy: what indeed is an urban fantasy? Contemporary titles seem to have a lot of romance but I don't know if it is truly an essential element. This ambiguity further complicates this issue. At what point does a book cease to be one genre and belong to another? Must a book fall into a single category?

Amazon's current system lets you narrow categories but it doesn't let you exclude specific qualities. What if you want fantasy but no dragons, or fiction without profanity?

It's probably safe to say that Amazon and other retailers would have a very hard time implementing such refined search results.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by LovesMacs

1. At present, Amazon has no need to spend time and money implementing this when its potential return on investment is questionable.

Amazon would make more money from me because I spend less time there than I otherwise would. Weeding out the romance books was wasting my time.

2. More problematic is how books are classified in the first place. I'm speculating here, but I strongly suspect that books sold at Amazon (and probably other sites) are classified by very general tags or fields: fantasy, romance, mystery, etc. with few available subcategories (urban, Regency, procedural, and so on). This much is pretty obvious.

I don't know who assigns these categories, but books often end up in more than one category, whether through ignorance or design. Take a vampire romance: it's obviously a romance but maybe it's a fantasy too. And vampires? Gotta be a horror book. Is it a young adult book? Could be--it won't hurt to put it in that category too! Now that single book has fallen into at least four categories.

Take subgenres like urban fantasy: what indeed is an urban fantasy? Contemporary titles seem to have a lot of romance but I don't know if it is truly an essential element. This ambiguity further complicates this issue. At what point does a book cease to be one genre and belong to another? Must a book fall into a single category?

Books do get tagged with multiple tags. That is why what I want could be done. If the book has a romance tag, yank it out of my searches and browsing.

There is little ambiguity to what I want. Does one book major in romance and minor in science fiction? Does another major in science fiction and minor in romance? Doesn't matter. I don't want either.

[hildea]

[off topic] I really, really must recommend Team Human by Sarah Rees Brennan and Justine Larbalestier to people who hate and/or love vampire romances (but maybe not so much to people who are meh to vampire romances). It's really funny, although I'd better give warning that some people fall in love, so if that's kryptonite to you, better stay away. [/off topic]

Originally Posted by Team Human

Vampires are trouble. Think about it: These days, all vampire transitions are voluntary. What kind of person would take the risk of becoming a vampire? There’d have to be something wrong with you. Because the process can either kill you outright or turn you into a drooling, mindless monster (which would lead to you being put down almost instantly), or, if you’re superlucky, you become a vampire.
Let’s examine what a prize that is one more time: no more direct sunlight ever again, no more laughter. You get eternity, but you don’t have the sense of humor to enjoy it! Also, vampires don’t eat food. You never get to eat chocolate again. Ever.
I’d rather die.
All the vampire wannabes and vamposeurs mystify me. Who would choose the possibility of immortality over chocolate?