MobileRead Short Story Anthology - [DISCUSSION & REVIEW]

[gmw]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

Spoiler:

I only said kitchen floor to help those readers who hadn't assumed that the mother would have naturally come in that way. Around here it's common for the informal entrance to let into the kitchen. I found that I had to have the reader know that it was the kitchen so the counter wouldn't be a surprise. And her little sister's bedroom could easily be down a hallway. We only hear that she 'wandered out.'

I didn't know it was called 'flash fiction' now. I learned of this style as a short-short story. I understand your desire for more meat on it. There are a lot of things that could survive more words. There's enough there that the story could be thousands of words longer. But as I've said, I want this story to be like a quick slash of a knife.

Thanks for your attention.

Jim

Spoiler:

I'm still not sure the location stuff is clear. Annie scrabbles at the lock and bursts out of her room, and the man turns around startled, so I am left with the distinct impression that the confrontation starts right outside her bedroom. The next location hint is backing across the kitchen floor. So, in my head, the only way this works is if the bedroom opens onto the kitchen. Maybe that was your intention, but it was still something that pulled me out of the story.

If you're finished with the main changes, do you want line edit suggestions now?

[Graham]

Originally Posted by gmw

I took most of them. Thanks very much, that was really helpful. I've posted v1.2 incorporating the changes.

Looks good to me.

Just a couple more edit comments:

Spoiler:

Gavin waited for her to close the door behind them

It's not instantly clear that we're not referring to the lift. (It's a period building, and not necessarily huge, like a hotel. It could have a manual lift door.) Perhaps add a reference to the specific one of the four apartments that she takes him to?

watched as the man settled himself at the other end of the long sofa

The apartment has been described as extravagant, with period furniture, so I'd expect there to be at least one armchair as well as the sofa. In this situation I think Gavin would find it odd and uncomfortable that the stranger chose to sit on the sofa with him, rather than slightly more removed on the armchair. You do want Coop to be this close, for the implied threat and the later action, but do you think Gavin should have an initial reaction at the imposition?

Graham

[gmw]

Originally Posted by mrmarlowe

When My Father 'Died' - v.1-8 up now. I made a few changes [...]

I haven't finished reading this over yet. I got carried away with commenting on issues in the text. I can see a definite improvement over the version I looked at previously, but I think it's time to start smoothing it out. There are many things that need tightening because I keep getting pulled out of the story by what seems - to me - to be odd phrasing and punctuation.

Spoiler:

We stood mute - throughout the entire process.

The dash here feels wrong. I'm stopping before I've even started. Just: "We stood mute throughout the entire process."

There are lots of redundant phrases throughout the text. Reiteration and redundancy can be a tool in telling a story, but it should be used deliberately, not accidentally. I'll give a few examples in a moment, but your best option is to look over each sentence on it's own and ask: "Does this add anything?". Then look at each clause in that sentence and ask: "Is this necessary?"

I read over that last paragraph and dislike myself, it's too much like advice I've seen spouted without context in many other places. Good stories are full of things are that are not strictly necessary - Lord of the Rings can be cut down to a few sentences. The author's job is to decide what is necessary, what will add to the story they want to tell. And different authors will make different choices. BUT ... the sort of redundancy I am trying to highlight in my examples below relate to details that the reader already knows - either because you've already said it in another way, or because it can be inferred from the context, or because it doesn't really say anything at all. These are the sorts of thing you have watch for and eliminate*.

I have not tried to be comprehensive, I've just picked things that stood out in the first few pages. And remember these are examples/opinions only. You are the author and the story must be told in a way that makes you happy.

Spoiler:

You use "Oddly enough" three times, and none of them feel necessary to me. For example the first one: "Oddly enough, he did nothing for us; all through ..." I would have has just "He had done nothing for us. All through ..."


A while later I heard the sound of clattering of utensils coming from our kitchen, which was, by the way, just beside that other room and of course, also dark.

I think this can be simplified to just: "A while later I heard the sound of clattering of utensils coming from our kitchen." (We already expect it to be dark, you turned the lights off earlier, and the location of the kitchen doesn't seem important at this time.)


You don't need to both UPPER CASE and say "I shouted". I suggest avoiding the use of uppercase - this is not an email.


"See? It's coming again from there. I certainly hope you're right."

That last sentence doesn't ring true to me. For that matter, everything after "See?" is probably redundant. We have already been told the noise came again, and given the noise the "hope you're right" seems inappropriate.


Mom said that it was possible the wind blowing outside was doing this. But I didn't believe her. There was certainly no heavy wind blowing outside. All of a sudden, the sound of clattering stopped again.

You could remove "There was certainly no heavy wind blowing outside. All of a sudden," and the paragraph and story remains effectively unchanged.


About an hour later, I heard a familiar voice - it was my father's voice. It said, "Hey, you people are sleeping so peacefully here eh? I can't get sleep in that upper story. I can't, so I came down here. I want to sleep here."

It could be cut down to: About an hour later I heard a familiar voice - my father's. It said, "Hey, you people are sleeping so peacefully here, eh? I can't get sleep in that upper story. I can't. I want to sleep here."

You can see I kept part of the father's reiteration "I can't", because I think that feels right, but got rid of the part that felt like unnecessary explanation.


I shook a little at hearing the oh-so-familiar voice at an odd time. To me the whole situation was incongruous to say the least

I think the second sentence is unnecessary - we hope the reader already understands that the situation is unusual.


"He used to love cooking. He'd spend a lot of time in the kitchen, with those utensils...", my mother commented casually, all of a sudden.

"casually, all of a sudden" is certainly incongruous. Both the mother's words and "commented" are enough to tell us she doesn't seem to be panicking. You could try "commented unexpectedly" if you felt that was needed.


In panic, I got out of my bed ...

This doesn't sound like panic to me. (Fear maybe, panic no.) I don't think you will lose anything by dropping "In panic, ".


I attempted to turn on the lights again and this time I indeed managed to turn them on. As soon as I turned on the lights I saw a figure resembling that of my father in stature, white as mist, fleeing from my room and then vanishing through the wall.

Could be cut to: I attempted to turn on the lights again. This time I managed it. I saw a figure resembling that of my father, white as mist, vanishing through the wall of the room.

Once the text reads more cleanly, without always pulling the reader out of the story, it will be easier to see the story for the words. (In case that's not obvious, I'm paraphrasing an old adage: "can't see the wood for the trees").

* It's also really risky giving advice like this. Too often the giver is guilty of these offences too, so it seems like a case of "Don't do what I do, do what I say." Put it down to being able to see faults in others better than we can see faults in ourselves.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Graham

Looks good to me.

Just a couple more edit comments:

Spoiler:

Gavin waited for her to close the door behind them

It's not instantly clear that we're not referring to the lift. (It's a period building, and not necessarily huge, like a hotel. It could have a manual lift door.) Perhaps add a reference to the specific one of the four apartments that she takes him to?

Not sure if you realise but ... in v1.0 I had the "... to close the door", in v1.1 I made that "... to close the apartment door" because I too thought it may have been unclear, then in v1.2 I went back to "... to close the door" to eliminate an excess "apartment" - as per your excellent suggestion. (Since she leads him "further into the apartment" a short time later, the location becomes clear, I hoped that would be enough.)

I'll have to think this one over some more, unless you have suggestions.


watched as the man settled himself at the other end of the long sofa

The apartment has been described as extravagant, with period furniture, so I'd expect there to be at least one armchair as well as the sofa. In this situation I think Gavin would find it odd and uncomfortable that the stranger chose to sit on the sofa with him, rather than slightly more removed on the armchair. You do want Coop to be this close, for the implied threat and the later action, but do you think Gavin should have an initial reaction at the imposition?

It was something I did consider, but it's potentially more complex to explain. That is, in a large room the layout of lounge furniture is not always conducive to story telling (as Coop is about to tell Gavin a story). A long lounge (sorry, sofa), with a man at either end, didn't seem too much a concern. Ultimately, I don't think it matters.

Your detailed attention has been greatly appreciated.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by gmw

Once the text reads more cleaning

Once the text reads more cleanly?

Marlowe, gmw's comments echo what I mentioned earlier about the length of the story coming down in editing. You've got the shape there now, and the next stage is always fun. I'm always amazed at how much I can take out without changing any of the story.

Removing stuff actually makes things stronger.

It's going to be interesting to see this at work with your story. Some of that repetition is certainly the Indian vernacular, and should be retained. gmw's advice about looking for redundant phrases is excellent, though, and the first instinct should be to remove things that don't add anything to the story.

Graham

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Graham

Once the text reads more cleanly?

Damn, I'd hoped my edit would go through before anyone saw that.

[Graham]

Spoiler:

GMW: Not sure if you realise but ... in v1.0 I had the "... to close the door", in v1.1 I made that "... to close the apartment door" because I too thought it may have been unclear, then in v1.2 I went back to "... to close the door" to eliminate an excess "apartment" - as per your excellent suggestion. (Since she leads him "further into the apartment" a short time later, the location becomes clear, I hoped that would be enough.)

Yes, I saw that this was from the improvement made (I actually edited 'You've fixed the apartment issue, but' out of my comment as I didn't think it added anything!).

How about something like:

The lift stopped and the doors opened, and she pulled him gently out by his hand. There were only four apartments up here. Gavin followed her to the nearest.

He waited for her to close the door behind them and then he moved in and pushed her against the wall.

Graham

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Graham

...

Spoiler:

[...]
How about something like:

The lift stopped and the doors opened, and she pulled him gently out by his hand. There were only four apartments up here. Gavin followed her to the nearest.

He waited for her to close the door behind them and then he moved in and pushed her against the wall.

Yes, I do like that. Simple and doesn't intrude on the flow.

I might not upload an update straightaway. I'll see if anything else comes in.

Thanks.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by mrmarlowe

When My Father 'Died' - v.1-8 up now. I made a few changes, but

Spoiler:

Kept the chopper knife ending, still. Purpose to make the reader keep 'guessing': 'Was it? Or was it not?' a dream. Still mulling over whether to end the story at the point where Zant asks for the contract - or not

It's just that I am a huge fan of open endings. But let's see what others have to suggest on it. Thx for your input, as always.

Spoiler:

"WHAT??? Aww, shit. Must've been a nightmare", I mumbled, somewhat relieved.

I think you could have him respond in more detail to his mother here. Rather than him telling us that it was just a nightmare, you could show us him finding out and it would have more impact. He'd do that by asking what his mother meant about his father. He'd mention the shradh. She'd ask him what he was talking about, his father's alive, etc.

Graham

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Graham

I've uploaded a new version, which attempts to addresses the various points made in the comments.

I've got some questions about this, though, but please don't open this spoiler until after reading it as I don't want to plant a preconception.

Spoiler:

I've made the Mate more human, and I think I've made the opening two pages flow better. However, I don't think her new character works as well. I think I've lost some of the charm that the stilted speech patterns gave them (even though that made for more clumsy reading), and weakened the Captain as his own slightly more human nature isn't thrown into such sharp relief. This weakens the impact of the ending.

Please could you let me know?

I think I need to find some middle ground for the Mate, where she's still a little more robotic.

I've not tackled gmw's comment about the rhythm of the middle section yet, as I want to nail the Mate's speech patterns first.

Graham

The opening definitely reads better. Even the middle section went past more smoothly for me this time.

Spoiler:

The removal of DEP/CAP helps a lot, I think. I didn't miss KEN-E at all. I also think that, with the opening not sounding so technical, it sets the reader up better for what follows. (But beware. It's something I've said before: you can only get a person's initial reaction once, everything after has to be tempered with the knowledge that things are always different, and often smoother, as you gain familiarity.)


I'm inclined to agree with you about the Mate. It was almost a surprise to see "We're" and "There's". I wonder if simply expanding these abbreviations may be an adequate middle ground, while still leaving out most of the formal terminology you had before. Or maybe going as far as replacing a few words with more formal sounding synonyms (eg: "expected" with "anticipated" and similar).


Coolant spattered to float, weightless, in the air...

The ", weightless," pulls me up every time. I think the first sentence is the wrong place for this sort of construct. I guess it does give us an immediate heads-up about where we are, but we soon see the word "starship". Alternatively, does it really need the commas?


... body, brushed away small bits of foam. Maybe: ... body, and brushed away small bits of foam.


I didn't have a problem with the captain waving his hand weakly near the end, you did say his head was still connected to the body by some wires.

Braced against the rock, ... I think someone's already said it, but I think it should probably be "a rock" (since the rock hasn't been introduced yet).

[Graham]

Originally Posted by gmw

The opening definitely reads better. Even the middle section went past more smoothly for me this time.

Spoiler:

The removal of DEP/CAP helps a lot, I think. I didn't miss KEN-E at all. I also think that, with the opening not sounding so technical, it sets the reader up better for what follows. (But beware. It's something I've said before: you can only get a person's initial reaction once, everything after has to be tempered with the knowledge that things are always different, and often smoother, as you gain familiarity.)


I'm inclined to agree with you about the Mate. It was almost a surprise to see "We're" and "There's". I wonder if simply expanding these abbreviations may be an adequate middle ground, while still leaving out most of the formal terminology you had before. Or maybe going as far as replacing a few words with more formal sounding synonyms (eg: "expected" with "anticipated" and similar).


Coolant spattered to float, weightless, in the air...

The ", weightless," pulls me up every time. I think the first sentence is the wrong place for this sort of construct. I guess it does give us an immediate heads-up about where we are, but we soon see the word "starship". Alternatively, does it really need the commas?


... body, brushed away small bits of foam. Maybe: ... body, and brushed away small bits of foam.


I didn't have a problem with the captain waving his hand weakly near the end, you did say his head was still connected to the body by some wires.

Braced against the rock, ... I think someone's already said it, but I think it should probably be "a rock" (since the rock hasn't been introduced yet).

Thanks for those.

Spoiler:

I wonder if simply expanding these abbreviations may be an adequate middle ground, while still leaving out most of the formal terminology you had before. Or maybe going as far as replacing a few words with more formal sounding synonyms (eg: "expected" with "anticipated" and similar).

Yes, my thoughts too. I'm going to go for another version, pulling slightly back out of the Mate's head, and putting some of the formality back into her speech. For the story to work, the Captain has to be more 'human' than she is. I can rationalise that as being due to him being the one who did all the rounds of interviews and meeting the public (but I don't think I need to make that explicit).

Coolant spattered to float, weightless, in the air...

I see what you mean about the commas in that. The word 'coolant' also comes across as harder SF than the story. Let's see if I can come up with a better opening few lines to set the scene.

The other comments were also much appreciated.

Graham

[Graham]

I've uploaded v1.2 of Planting the Flag.

This one feels right to me now, and I'm happy to receive line edit comments.

Graham

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by gmw

If you're finished with the main changes, do you want line edit suggestions now?

Yes. I'm ready to call this one done and get started on the second one, so let's get down to the details.

[arjaybe]

v1.2

You took care of the doorman's alcove nicely.

Something about the "Gavin sat on the sofa . . . the woman and the apartment." paragraph bothers me. That's a lot of things to say in one paragraph. I think you can say them all, but it feels awkward as is.

The glass snorting works well now.

Spoiler:

I get it now. She returned to the drinks cabinet with Gavin's drink and poured them drinks. My problem was that once she had Gavin's drink in her hand, I wanted her to do something with it. Well, obviously she put it on the cabinet.

Jim

[arjaybe]

v1.2

Not much.

Spoiler:

There are still a few contractions in the Mate's speech.

Jim