Self-publishing is only going to get bigger: deal with it

[GeoffR]

Originally Posted by Geralt

Yeah I read 3-4 books (1200~ pages) a month. I don't think I'll be running out of traditionally published material any time soon.

I largely agree, but there is an awful lot of superb backlist books that are not yet available as ebooks, and the traditional publishers seem to be in no hurry to re-publish them. I hope that the authors are able to take back control and self-publish their backlists, that way we get the best of both worlds: traditionally published books at self-published ebook prices.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

THE MAN WHO AWOKE, WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE/AFTER WORLDS COLLIDE, etc
Early Asimov and Heinlein, DelRey, Lieber, Brown...

There was a lot of quality, seminal SF and Fantasy in the 30's.
And the 20's: ARMAGEDDON 2419, GLADIATOR, SKYLARK OF SPACE, among others.
Somebody had to be first and for many themes and subgenres, it was those guys.

Yeah, but the quantity isn't that great (and this is from a guy who's read all those books you mentioned. I have a copy of Armageddon 2419 on the coffee table behind me, and Skylark in a box behind it.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Yeah, but the quantity isn't that great (and this is from a guy who's read all those books you mentioned. I have a copy of Armageddon 2419 on the coffee table behind me, and Skylark in a box behind it.

The market for SF was very limited in those days: 2-3 magazines and essentially zero books. In those early days the editors valued high concept "scientific" ideas and scenarios over story. A lot of the same writers putting out the "clunky" scientifiction pulps for Amazing were also doing much better in other genres.

SF has long been constrained by the gatekeepers' preconceptions and prejudices. Even the best of editors--Campbell, Boucher, etc--had biases and expectations that make modern readers roll their eyes. Things like "SF is for boys and they won't buy stories from girls" or the near universality of two-fisted east coast WASP protagonists.

I'd say it's a tribute to the writers that so many of their stories remain relevant after a century of social change, considering the editorial constraints they faced.

(One point that is virtually universal among indie authors is the matter of control. Over the decades their lack of control over the finished product has chaffed even more than the predatory contract terms; the contracts being universally bad, while the quality and quantity of gatekeeper support was essentially random luck.)

[typatterson67]

Originally Posted by mcrow

I think the mistake self publishers make sometimes is not finding their niche and going too mainstream. Most people looking to take a shot on a no name author are probably looking for something specifically outside mainstream.

my two cents :

every author, trad of SP,needs to know who their audience is and that audience usually starts with themselves. if you write what you like to read, then that's the market.

i think unknown authors are read not just because readers want to try something mainstream.

i am a SP author and obviously an unknown one. the readers who have read me do so because they want to try thrillers (my genre) by new authors - which is different from going outside mainstream...unless of course you meant the same thing

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by Geralt

You know what, for the main point I honestly don't care it's going to get bigger.
When I look at the number of books I want to read written by masters and legends of sci-fi and fantasy, all the way from 1940s to present day, I have no inclination or time to dabble with the self-publishing authors. I was born in the 1980s, there's 40 years of publishing to catch up with!

Aside from a few recommendations that come from people who are into the same things as me, for example Blood Song (Raven's Shadow #1) by Anthony Ryan or The Riyria Revelations series by Michael J. Sullivan, both of which were picked up by traditional publisher afterward, I will not be reading self-published fantasy or sci-fi novels.

Oh and if I ever start reading romance, there's a big chance I am possessed by demons.

Interesting position. Access to those 40 years of books either means scrounging around used paper book stores in the hopes of stumbling across what you want, or seeking out new ebooks when authors/families release self-published ebooks of those backlist books. I wonder how far your aversion to self-publishing goes? Will you avoid all those backlist ebooks?

[Calenorn]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

I largely agree, but there is an awful lot of superb backlist books that are not yet available as ebooks, and the traditional publishers seem to be in no hurry to re-publish them. I hope that the authors are able to take back control and self-publish their backlists, that way we get the best of both worlds: traditionally published books at self-published ebook prices.

Second! Those back catalogs are gold mines! If the traditional publishers are as worried as we hear, then why aren't they making those older titles available? I've had a long 'want list' for over three years and almost nothing has appeared. They can't control the self-published new material; why aren't they taking advantage of the material that they DO control? Personally, my spending on e-books would increase tremendously if my favorites could be purchased.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by typatterson67

i am a SP author and obviously an unknown one. the readers who have read me do so because they want to try thrillers (my genre) by new authors - which is different from going outside mainstream...unless of course you meant the same thing

I would say it's more about finding things to read that the mainstream publishers have either lost interest in or never had any interest in to start with. I always use the example of a fictional book set within the seedy world of professional snail racing. It's never going to be a best seller, so no publisher would touch it, but anyone with a passing interest in snail racing will want to read it. it's about being a small fish in a puddle. Writing within the mainstream you'll just be swamped by all the other writers, unless you're extremely lucky.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It's never going to be a best seller, so no publisher would touch it, but anyone with a passing interest in snail racing will want to read it.

Why do you believe that? I am interested in a lot of things but I do not care about if the books are including what I am interested in. I look for very good books to read. An I have read books I like that have settings that bore me in reality.

[typatterson67]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I would say it's more about finding things to read that the mainstream publishers have either lost interest in or never had any interest in to start with. I always use the example of a fictional book set within the seedy world of professional snail racing. It's never going to be a best seller, so no publisher would touch it, but anyone with a passing interest in snail racing will want to read it. it's about being a small fish in a puddle. Writing within the mainstream you'll just be swamped by all the other writers, unless you're extremely lucky.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. I have a view that there are many readers out there who will read mainstream fiction regardless of whether it is trad published or self published and THOSE readers are my audience.

Granted that getting my book to rise above the noise is danged hard and it might never happen. But that same is true for trad publishing as well. Just because a mainstream book is trad published doesn't make it a best seller. It might sell a few copies more than mine but the challenges those book face post publishing are no different to the challenges mine face.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by typatterson67

Granted that getting my book to rise above the noise is danged hard and it might never happen.

It may not even need to rise above the noise.
The way the numbers are trending it may be possible to do "well enough" without even approaching bestseller-dom. There are many different definitions of success other than hitting the NYT bestseller list for a few weeks before fading into the background.

[Geralt]

Originally Posted by Synamon

Interesting position. Access to those 40 years of books either means scrounging around used paper book stores in the hopes of stumbling across what you want, or seeking out new ebooks when authors/families release self-published ebooks of those backlist books. I wonder how far your aversion to self-publishing goes? Will you avoid all those backlist ebooks?

Look, I know this is site is called Mobileread, but to me a book is a book. I don't care if it's paper or ebook.
I don't have the same attitude toward backlists of books written by traditionally publish authors (from 30s or 40s) that aren't available as ebooks, and present self-publishing by no-name authors.
Honestly I don't see why you would even compare the two, makes no sense.

If they become available as ebooks of course I would buy them if they were on my plan to read list.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Grace Elliot

By 2020 50% of all books published will be Indie.

No one really knows.

Originally Posted by Grace Elliot

Haven't publishers heard of evolution and survival of the fittest?

I'm not sure where you are coming from. If this is a rah-rah indie publishing comment, my problem may be a dislike for rah-rah regarding almost anything. I come from a non-sports-fan family, so maybe it is in our genes not to cheer

To try to answer the question, I suppose that steady or increasing profits in a time of declining advances could be a sign that some publishing executives are indeed pointed in a social Darwinism, survival of the fittest, direction.

Then you have the chutzpah of Penguin Random House having authors pay them, rather than the traditional other way around:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author_Solutions

Taking your post even more literally, if the kind of publishers who pay advances are so terrible when it comes to evolution, why isn't there one self-published title on this list:

The Best Books On Evolution Published This Decade

Some of the books on my last link don't actually seem to be from the last decade, but it does illustrate how self-publishing tends to be concentrated, and even confined, to a few genres -- mostly those where research is unimportant and books gain traction without favorable signed mainstream media reviews.

[crich70]

I imagine it's not the 1st time such has been a problem (an increase of media I mean). I mean 1st there was the printing press which made it easier to produce books for more people to read and then there were the improvements to the process such as the linotype machine which made it quicker to produce media, then there was the advent of radio and television which threw more media at people and now the internet with its ads and other media. Change is something that has to happen of a society isn't going to stagnate.

[typatterson67]

Yes...people talk about what an impact the internet has made on the world. Actually, the Gutenberg press has made a deeper and longer lasting impact

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by typatterson67

Yes...people talk about what an impact the internet has made on the world. Actually, the Gutenberg press has made a deeper and longer lasting impact

In many ways, the Internet simply put a press in every home, democratizing it's reach.

Now anyone can publish anything and get immediate worldwide distribution. (And that's just a web page.)