Dystopic YA fiction serves a purpose - Page 3

missimpossible · 03-13-2014, 09:40 AM

I enjoy dystopian YA as pure escapism (though oddly I didn't really enjoy The Hunger Games) but I don't think it's exactly reinventing the wheel, in the main. I think there's a difference between the kind of dystopian/utopian fiction that young people/anybody should read because there's something to learn from it (1984, Brave New World, We, Fahrenheit 451) and the sort of thing that's become popular post-Hunger Games. I don't think there's anything wrong with reading it, regardless of age, but I do think there can be a tendency among some people to overstate the quality of young adult literature - there are a few real gems, but most of it is just pure entertainment and not particularly well written. I hope that makes sense!

DiapDealer · 03-13-2014, 09:49 AM

Why do so many people say "pure entertainment" as if it's a negative thing?

missimpossible · 03-13-2014, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Why do so many people say "pure entertainment" as if it's a negative thing?

Sorry if that was how my post came across - I really didn't mean it like that! I genuinely just meant that I think that a lot of YA falls into that category, not that a "pure entertainment" category is a bad thing. I read a lot of stuff purely for the sake of entertainment because that's what I want to do and because I read a lot of boring legal stuff for uni. What I meant was that I think that some people do see that as a criticism and go to lengths to prove that YA books are "more" than that whereas I don't see why they need to be. There's a place for everything. However, I do think there's a difference between books that fall purely into the entertainment category and stuff that is a bit more "literary" for want of a better word. I just think they're for different things and that's not a criticism of one or the other.

DiapDealer · 03-13-2014, 10:26 AM

Oh it's no big deal. You happened to be the most recent person that said it in a way that gave me pause (even though that wasn't apparently your attention). Perhaps it is the "just" that so often precedes "pure entertainment" that makes it feel somewhat dismissive.

missimpossible · 03-13-2014, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Oh it's no big deal. You happened to be the most recent person that said it in a way that gave me pause (even though that wasn't apparently your attention). Perhaps it is the "just" that so often precedes "pure entertainment" that makes it feel somewhat dismissive.

I know exactly what you mean - and yeah, I think I'm definitely guilty of putting the "just" in there even when I don't mean it!

peachiekene · 03-13-2014, 11:38 AM

Quote:

I don't think there's anything wrong with reading it, regardless of age, but I do think there can be a tendency among some people to overstate the quality of young adult literature - there are a few real gems, but most of it is just pure entertainment and not particularly well written. I hope that makes sense!

I knew what you meant because I feel the same way. I think that's why I don't enjoy YA very much. I don't only read "real gem" book, it's just that (general) YA doesn't fit my own personal "pure entertainment" taste.

HarryT · 03-13-2014, 11:47 AM

The reason I don't personally like YA books is that they all (that I've come across, at least) seem to be written in the first person, which I can't stand.

Yapyap · 03-13-2014, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The reason I don't personally like YA books is that they all (that I've come across, at least) seem to be written in the first person, which I can't stand.

Not all of them, but there's been a definite trend in the last few years for that - I'd say the majority of YA books released in the last five years (that I've read) are indeed written in first person.

At least not all of them are in present tense - there was a huge explosion of first person present tense YA books after The Hunger Games. I can tolerate it by now, but I far prefer past tense.

There is the occasional YA book written in third person, but I think it's far more common in current children's/middle-grade/age 9-12 books than current YA.

DiapDealer · 03-13-2014, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The reason I don't personally like YA books is that they all (that I've come across, at least) seem to be written in the first person, which I can't stand.

The general dislike for first person narratives (YA or not) has been one the biggest surprises of my "online life." I enjoy well-written first person stuff myself. Couldn't have been more shocked to discover it was a stand-alone "factor" in determining what people like, actually. Sort of akin to not liking the past tense.

Yapyap · 03-13-2014, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The general dislike for first person narratives (YA or not) has been one the biggest surprises of my "online life." I enjoy well-written first person stuff myself. Couldn't have been more shocked to discover it was a stand-alone "factor" in determining what people like, actually. Sort of akin to not liking the past tense.

I don't mind first person as a concept at all, but it's a lot, hm, riskier?

I think that - in good, capable hands - having a first person narrative is a very useful tool for showing the narrator's/protagonist's "voice". It can help enormously with the characterisation; just the choice of words, the trains of thought, so on.

On the other hand, if you don't like the narrator and find the narrator's voice grating, irritating, or annoying, it makes the book (for me anyway) much harder to enjoy, compared to third person narratives. So that's one factor that might affect a lot of people's enjoyment of that - and perhaps if you first get exposed to a lot of irritating narrators, it becomes something to avoid?

And YA in particular, sadly, is often full of irritating narrators.

peachiekene · 03-13-2014, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The general dislike for first person narratives (YA or not) has been one the biggest surprises of my "online life." I enjoy well-written first person stuff myself. Couldn't have been more shocked to discover it was a stand-alone "factor" in determining what people like, actually. Sort of akin to not liking the past tense.

I don't really get it either. I like both. (First and Third)
For the tenses, I haven't read too much that is present tense. Although, while I enjoyed The Hunger Games, it being both first person and present actually made things less suspenseful for me.

Spoiler:

DiapDealer · 03-13-2014, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yapyap

I don't mind first person as a concept at all, but it's a lot, hm, riskier?

I think that - in good, capable hands - having a first person narrative is a very useful tool for showing the narrator's/protagonist's "voice". It can help enormously with the characterisation; just the choice of words, the trains of thought, so on.

On the other hand, if you don't like the narrator and find the narrator's voice grating, irritating, or annoying, it makes the book (for me anyway) much harder to enjoy, compared to third person narratives. So that's one factor that might affect a lot of people's enjoyment of that - and perhaps if you first get exposed to a lot of irritating narrators, it becomes something to avoid?

And YA in particular, sadly, is often full of irritating narrators.

That could be, I suppose. I guess I've just never really gave much thought to whether I "liked" the narrator or not. Especially when so many are not specifically written to be liked. *shrug*

missimpossible · 03-13-2014, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That could be, I suppose. I guess I've just never really gave much thought to whether I "liked" the narrator or not. Especially when so many are not specifically written to be liked. *shrug*

Yeah, I was really surprised at the general dislike for first person narratives on the internet as well. I've never stopped to think about which I prefer - although as someone said above, with regard to the Hunger Games, it does have its drawbacks. It probably really depends on the author and the way they use it. I've seen not liking narrators killing my enjoyment when I feel like the author has intended me to like the narrator and I don't or can't. I agree though that often characters, even main characters aren't meant to be liked, and that works differently.

Yapyap · 03-13-2014, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missimpossible

I agree though that often characters, even main characters aren't meant to be liked, and that works differently.

Yes, agreed. That is different from being irritated by a protagonist who is probably meant to be positive and likeable.

Although there have been plenty of times I've just disliked a narrator/protagonist (regardless of POV, but it really is more of an issue in first person for me) so much that knowing they're meant to be that way doesn't really help. Yeah, so the author managed to make them as dislikeable as they meant to - great for them, but I'm still stuck reading someone who annoys the hell out of me... and not in a "what a brilliant antihero / negative protagonist / love to hate them" way, necessarily.

More generally, though, for me it doesn't matter if I don't notice it. If I don't consciously notice either the POV or the tense (although I tend to notice present tense even if I'm not as completely turned off by it any more as I used to be), the author has done their job well (for me, anyway). It could be first or third person - if I'm into the book, if it's grabbed me from the first sentence - I often have no conscious realisation even whether it's first or third person, and have to stop and check. If it's something that jumps out, though, then I'm less likely to enjoy it.

fjtorres · 03-13-2014, 06:50 PM

One of my favorite first person narratives is THE BUTTERFLY KID:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Butterfly_Kid

The author is the protagonist and the story takes place in his neighborhood.

(Yes, it is still SF.)

I also like the old-school "as-told-to framing sequence" as used by ERB in A PRINCESS OF MARS.

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03-13-2014, 09:40 AM	#31
missimpossible Groupie Posts: 165 Karma: 491236 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Glasgow Device: Libra 2, Clara 2e, Oasis 3	I enjoy dystopian YA as pure escapism (though oddly I didn't really enjoy The Hunger Games) but I don't think it's exactly reinventing the wheel, in the main. I think there's a difference between the kind of dystopian/utopian fiction that young people/anybody should read because there's something to learn from it (1984, Brave New World, We, Fahrenheit 451) and the sort of thing that's become popular post-Hunger Games. I don't think there's anything wrong with reading it, regardless of age, but I do think there can be a tendency among some people to overstate the quality of young adult literature - there are a few real gems, but most of it is just pure entertainment and not particularly well written. I hope that makes sense!

03-13-2014, 09:49 AM	#32
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,574 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Why do so many people say "pure entertainment" as if it's a negative thing?

03-13-2014, 10:26 AM	#34
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,574 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Oh it's no big deal. You happened to be the most recent person that said it in a way that gave me pause (even though that wasn't apparently your attention). Perhaps it is the "just" that so often precedes "pure entertainment" that makes it feel somewhat dismissive.

03-13-2014, 11:47 AM	#37
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The reason I don't personally like YA books is that they all (that I've come across, at least) seem to be written in the first person, which I can't stand.

03-13-2014, 06:50 PM	#45
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	One of my favorite first person narratives is THE BUTTERFLY KID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Butterfly_Kid The author is the protagonist and the story takes place in his neighborhood. (Yes, it is still SF.) I also like the old-school "as-told-to framing sequence" as used by ERB in A PRINCESS OF MARS.