just because you have written a book does not make you an author

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by moonshot

Mobile Read. Not Mobile Write.

eReaders are for the reader. Another way to read books, more convenient for some.

It is also, by default, more convenient for people who write 'stuff' to have this 'stuff' displayed with 'proper' books and their e reader version. Sort of gate crashing the party.

If this generation of new writers are so keen to have their work read then they should at least offer it for free, much like software and apps developers do, in the hope that it is noticed and is good enough to be developed further with maybe a publishing deal.

But for someone to write and upload this 'stuff' as a book and charge for it without it being expertly proof-read and checked or money back guarantee offered, this is being delusional.

Ok there are exceptions to every rule but that percentage is very very small.

(Like the new author of 'Half Bad'. Her first book, sent to a publisher, accepted straight away, then given to a film company to read and they bought the rights to make the movie). A writers dream, but a exception to the rule.

Since all these small fish share the same ocean as the more established ones, we the reader need to be able to distinguish one from the other. Maybe by a vanity notice on these books, could be the line in the sand.

One exception might be a person writing a one off story, in their own words about an event in their life, where they state that it is 'in their own words' and has not been proof read.

The expression "Caveat Emptor" or "Let the buyer beware" has been around for a long time. One may want to be spoon fed perfection in every aspect of life. But chances are it isn't going to happen whether you are buying a book, going to a movie, buying a car or a house etc. Sure all author should produce perfect books tailored so that one size fits all and everyone will love them. Pretty hard to do unless we are all conformists but someone may actually do it. Blue Jean manufacturers come closer than most.

Still if I am going to get a disappointing product because I am unable to make a sound decision or practice due diligence I'd rather it was a book I didn't care for than a house that fell down or a car that didn't run.

I can understand why a person would occasionally buy a book on impulse with no knowledge of the author etc. but I cannot understand why they would whine about it. You pay your money and take your chances in so many areas of life. Books are among the cheapest forms of paid for entertainment IMO, and can mostly be acquired from a library if one cannot or does not want to pay.

And if you are interested in an authors "credentials" as your main guide to buying their book, just check if they are available on Overdrive. Some good authors may not be, but chances are that those that are have passed a public and professional opinion vetting based on performance or popularity.

Expecting cheap or free books to have the same standards as more expensive ones is like expecting a cheap or free suit to be as good as an expensive one. Doesn't seem to work that way in my world.

Helen

[BearMountainBooks]

I read a lot of indie books (self-published). Some well-edited, some not. Some have great storylines, some good, some unfinished ones are terrible. I don't require a "vanity" stamp or any other stamp. I say this as a reader, not a writer. I'm able to easily distinguish between books I want to read and those I do not want to read. I am able to easily distinguish bad grammar and typos. No need for anyone to mark anything. I utilize goodreads, various reviews sites and sampling to sort books. While I may sort by price (as in, what will I buy today) I don't need to sort by publisher.

I speak as a reader. And I read a LOT. Maybe not as much as some on mobileread, but still a rather large amount of books. If you just want all self-published books set into a category and marked, say so. Redefining author might not have been your real purpose.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Glorfindel

and by extention: just because you are on mobileread doesn't mean you read ebooks or are an expert on the matter

Touche. Though I do read ebooks. I have quite a collection I've built up from MR and Amazon. Anyone who writes is a writer whether they just write up a grocery list or the next best seller, but an author writes books. I wasn't trying to say anything about anyone here at MR in particular, just pointing out that that basic argument can be used for a lot of things. Some of which have greater relevance than others.

[LovesMacs]

Originally Posted by moonshot

Since all these small fish share the same ocean as the more established ones, we the reader need to be able to distinguish one from the other. Maybe by a vanity notice on these books, could be the line in the sand.

I judge books by what is inside the covers, so to speak, not by what is on the outside or however they have been produced. Not Brand X vs. Brand Y vs. self-published. This involves some initial reading of reviews and recommendations, but primarily it involves samples of the actual book. That is how I, as a reader, distinguish one book from another: reading the book.

[TechniSol]

Originally Posted by moonshot

Would that be a professional "Tinkerer" or a cowboy "Tinkerer".

I got PAID, so I guess I can no longer compete in the Tinkerer Olympics, unless I wish to play basketball... However, I really do it for the love of the game -and cash.

In the spirit of this entire thread I offer the following: All Tinkerers, by definition, are "Cowboys." Further, "Mommas, don't let your babies grow up to be Tinkerers..."

[moonshot]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

The expression "Caveat Emptor" or "Let the buyer beware" has been around for a long time.

I think you will find that you are referring to second hand goods; if I buy something new, I want a guarantee.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Still if I am going to get a disappointing product because I am unable to make a sound decision or practice due diligence I'd rather it was a book I didn't care for than a house that fell down or a car that didn't run.

That makes sense. I would rather buy a badly written book rather than a badly build house as well.

But why should badly written books that I would have to pay for be allowed through the net, where as badly build houses should not?

Originally Posted by LovesMacs

I judge books by what is inside the covers, so to speak, not by what is on the outside or however they have been produced. Not Brand X vs. Brand Y vs. self-published. This involves some initial reading of reviews and recommendations, but primarily it involves samples of the actual book. That is how I, as a reader, distinguish one book from another: reading the book.

That's good. And it works for you. But what is your objection for not categorising vanity ebooks, or do you not have one?

[badgerboy]

I think the "badly built" house anology is better phrased as "badly designed but still up to code." The house can be awful to live in and still meet all the relevant requirements.
The book can be awful to read, but as long as the pages stay in the book for a sensible length of time or the book is capable of being opened correctly in your ereader, then who is to say what is badly written?
I've tried to read 'classic' novels and have either just been left cold or not even been able to finish them, and I've read 'pulp' that has inspired me and left me wanting to read more.
Someone who writes an article, a poem, a tweet, a book (even if never published) is an author.
It's up to you as a buyer to sieve out the wheat from the chaff.

[doubleshuffle]

Originally Posted by moonshot

But why should badly written books that I would have to pay for be allowed through the net, where as badly build houses should not?

Oh yes, make a rule. You will certainly find the ultimate standard for book quality. Let all the books that don't meet your standard be banned.

Or burned? Isn't there a law according to which a Hitler comparison is loooong overdue in this thread? Well, I'm not making that comparison, but you're bringing me very close.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by moonshot

But why should badly written books that I would have to pay for be allowed through the net, where as badly build houses should not?

Because a badly built house can be tested against standards, such as structural integrity, strength of support walls, etcetera. As soon as all the criteria are met, the house is OK, but it can still be a bad house to some people, while it's a good house to others. A 50m² appartment is fine for a bachelor, who is out and about to work for 12 hours a day, but it doesn't work for a family of 8. For the bachelor, the house/appartment is fine, for the family it's bad.

Same goes for books. As long as it can be read without problems (on an e-reader, or as a paperback), then it is up to the reader to decide if the content is bad or not.

FYI: "The discovery of heaven", by the Dutch writer Harry Mulish, is considered a masterpiece and maybe already even a classic, not only over here, but in the rest of the world as well. I won't touch it with a ten foot pole, because I absolutely detest Mulish' writing style. To me, all of his books are bad (and boring), not worth the cost of the paper.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by moonshot

I think you will find that you are referring to second hand goods; if I buy something new, I want a guarantee.

Well, there's good news! If you buy a e-book from Amazon, and you don't like it, you can return it within a week and get your money back. All the things you say you want already exist.

That makes sense. I would rather buy a badly written book rather than a badly build house as well.

But why should badly written books that I would have to pay for be allowed through the net, where as badly build houses should not?

That's rather blindingly obvious. Houses cost a great deal more than does a book. If you don't like a book, you're out a few dollars (that is assuming you didn't return the book for a refund). If the house is improperly built, you can be out hundreds of thousands of dollars. A house that is not build to code is also dangerous. If a house collapses because it is structurally unsound or catches fire because it was improperly wired, that is a rather more serious consequence than reading a book you didn't like.

[Katsunami]

Oh, great I've got some straws left over here.

*grasp*

Somebody wants one too? I'll pass them around

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Oh, great I've got some straws left over here.

*grasp*

Somebody wants one too? I'll pass them around

I was thinking , but straws work too.

[arjaybe]

But look at the thread count. There must be a lot of dopamine in there.

[QuantumIguana]

There's just no way to find good books. Aside from book critics, reviews, recommendations, word of mouth, advertising, awards, authors getting on TV and radio to promote their books, blurbs and samples, of course. But besides those there just isn't any way to tell what is a good book. And it gets worse! Once you buy an e-book, there's no way to get your money back if you don't like it! Except for having a week to return the book for a refund, of course.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Because a badly built house can be tested against standards, such as structural integrity, strength of support walls, etcetera. As soon as all the criteria are met, the house is OK, but it can still be a bad house to some people, while it's a good house to others. A 50m² appartment is fine for a bachelor, who is out and about to work for 12 hours a day, but it doesn't work for a family of 8. For the bachelor, the house/appartment is fine, for the family it's bad.

Same goes for books. As long as it can be read without problems (on an e-reader, or as a paperback), then it is up to the reader to decide if the content is bad or not.

In a book, aren't grammar, spelling, and punctuation akin to the "structural integrity, strength of support walls, etc." of a house? These are basics that can be objectively judged, not matters of the consumer's personal preference or whim.