Do you own the books your purchase on kobo?

[DaveCanRead]

Does Kobo remotely delete your books, or do you own them?
This questions intent is not to attack Amazon. I just wanted to know if anyone had info on Kobo's policy.

Thanks.

[pdurrant]

You do not own your Kobo books. They are licensed to you, and you alone.

I explicitly asked Kobo about this back in October 2012.

"I am asking about the licence terms.

May I let my spouse read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?
May I let my children read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?
May I let a close friend read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?

[…]I do want to understand how many copies of an ebook you expect a household to buy if everyone in the household wants to read it."

Kobo replied

"Legally, only the account holder has license to use the material. "

The same question to Amazon got the following

"In terms of use, you have purchase[d] a copy of a book with us, and it is your copy. You may authorize any one you wish to read it, but that person's device must be registered to your account to do so."

[DaveCanRead]

So, it's the same policy as Amazon?

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by DaveCanRead

Does Kobo remotely delete your books

Thanks.

Are you asking if Kobo removes books from your Desktop account? These are kepub format and the file is downloaded onto your PC.

Do you mean Kobo remove books from your Kobobooks.com Library? These are epub or PDF (and perhaps other?) format and are stored on Kobo's servers until you download them. They (should) remain on your Kobo Library account unless Kobo and you have some sort of chat about them e.g. bad book format etc

Do you mean Kobo remove books from your device, the books that you may have bought directly onto your device? I don't use this method so I don't know, but AFAIK these are kepub books and are donwloaded directly onto the ereader storage area. So again, Kobo can't access them to remove them.

Well, they're my ideas .... I look forward to knowing whether I understand it all correctly from the more experienced members

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

You do not own your Kobo books. They are licensed to you, and you alone.

I explicitly asked Kobo about this back in October 2012.

"I am asking about the licence terms.

May I let my spouse read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?
May I let my children read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?
May I let a close friend read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?

[…]I do want to understand how many copies of an ebook you expect a household to buy if everyone in the household wants to read it."

Kobo replied

"Legally, only the account holder has license to use the material. "

The same question to Amazon got the following

"In terms of use, you have purchase[d] a copy of a book with us, and it is your copy. You may authorize any one you wish to read it, but that person's device must be registered to your account to do so."

Thanks for sharing that info, albeit it's a very limited answer.

The answer doesn't provide for the book buying account holder reading it on a device where the device holder is different from the book buyer account holder.

As it is such a short response it could of course mean any darn thing that Kobo wants it to mean

[dclauzel]

It depends of your country, and its legislation.

For example, in France we are unquestionably allowed to share our ebooks within the circle of family and friends, or to use them in a way that was not intended by the published (like text-to-speech, printing, etc). And for doing this, we are allowed to circumvent or remove any DRM for interoperability and backups.

[PeterT]

Just remember that if the book was only in kepub format that a sync of desktop and / or device with Kobo will remove books from the computer / device that are not found in the user's Kobo library at the Kobo website.

[PurpleStar]

Nope, it's just a license. The bad thing about ebooks.

[Tarana]

The answer doesn't provide for the book buying account holder reading it on a device where the device holder is different from the book buyer account holder.

Actually, the answer does apply. Kobo's policy does not extend the right to use books purchased in your account to people OTHER THAN the account holder. That includes family and friends. Amazon, on the other hand, has no problem that my cousin and sister, in different states, having access to my Amazon library provided their device is registered to my account. This has worked great for us and there is no question about legality because it is their policy.

Now, where it is wishy-washy is if your registered device is deregistered and then registered under another account. That ebook you downloaded was legal when downloaded to that device, and even though it is still residing there, it is now registered to another account. Example: My cousin owns a device that is normally registered to my account. However, he has his own purchases in his own Kindle library and can deregister his device from my account, and then register his device with his own account to download new purchases. This is really common in families, but there is no specific policy about it.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Just remember that if the book was only in kepub format that a sync of desktop and / or device with Kobo will remove books from the computer / device that are not found in the user's Kobo library at the Kobo website.

Peter I'm unclear about this ..... my device is in an account that never buys books, and I only ever sync it to the Kobo desktop to upgrade the firmware.

I only sideload Calibre cleaned epub books onto the device.

When I sync my device with Kobo desktop the dialogue box shows that the books are syncing, but I've never ascertained what they sync with and wonder if anything happens at all.

My books remain unchanged on my device after the sync.

[TechniSol]

It's all a legal fiction, if you will, a made up thing called a license. You're granted a set of limited rights under the license. Those rights vary with locales and legislation, but mostly you're granted the right to store and read the content, but not reproduce it or distribute it to others. You probably have the right to back it up in order to preserve the right to access the material, but it gets a little murky as does your right to share it with others. At some point one has to realize that practicality dictates that you can share it with others and chance very little in terms of enforcement, but you never know when the wind will blow the other way...

That uncertainty is one of the best reasons to be opposed to DRM in it's current forms.

I just re-read the above, and thought I should clarify share to mean experience together, read together or for another, but not copy and distribute. I have a problem with the idea that one is not allowed to let another person access the book when they are not on the basis that I paid for that access and therefore own the right to access it and should have the right to allow someone else that privilege as long as I am not doing so independently which in theory would require copying and distributing a copy.

I think people would have far less issue with DRM if those promoting it were more realistic and not always attempting to restrict rights beyond the expected basic tenants of the form. In other words, if publishers were realistic about access within a family/friends group instead of trying to extract the last farthing as usual most people would have no problem with it. They violate the basic tenants of fairness and then expect others to play by their rules, in that case is it any wonder they would be opposed?

[DaveCanRead]

I was just wondering how some had their books deleted from their ereader.
What not to do, to avoid this happening.
Like were these missing drm that shouldn't have been missing, or objectionable content in the book.

[robko]

Originally Posted by DaveCanRead

I was just wondering how some had their books deleted from their ereader.
What not to do, to avoid this happening.
Like were these missing drm that shouldn't have been missing, or objectionable content in the book.

In the much publicized widespread Kindle case, it was a question of Amazon selling a "self published" version of Orwell's "1984" that the "publisher" didn't have the rights for. That meant that Amazon would have been on the hook for royalties and possibly damages to the actual rights holder. Rather than pay that out they refunded those who bought it and remotely deleted it from their devices (causing problems for some who had notes etc attached to that version that no longer meant anything). Due to the outcry, Amazon promised to never do it again, although they likely have the technical capacity to do so. Who knows if the other companies have the same ability or not, but for PR reasons I doubt it will get a widespread use again. The other more isolated Amazon cases have been where Amazon has claimed people broke their terms of service (i.e. buying from a different country than they lived in IIRC) and Amazon closed their account (which cut off any further access to download of these books). Obviously in these cases Amazon and those whose accounts were closed have different views on what transpired and I'm not going to claim to know who is right.
The easiest way to protect your books is to use Calibre and get to know Apprentice Alf (do a google on him) and keep a copy on your own computer. This may or may not be legal depending on where you live, but it will protect your books (including in case the bookstore you bought it from goes out of business).

And as someone above has probably already said, the LICENSE rather than OWN thing applies to all the bookstores, not just Amazon or Kobo.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

As it is such a short response it could of course mean any darn thing that Kobo wants it to mean

OK, just for complete clarity, here are the complete sequence of emails between me and Kobo customer services.

First question

Spoiler:

Dear Kobo,

A question about terms of use, specifically item 9:

"9. Literary Works.
All literary works at kobobooks.com are the exclusive property of the publisher or its licensors and is protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws. The download of these literary works is intended for Kobo's Registered Users' personal and non-commercial use. Any other use of literary works downloaded from kobobooks.com is strictly prohibited. Registered Users may not modify, transmit, publish, participate in the transfer or sale of, reproduce, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, display, or in any way exploit, any of the content of these literary works, in whole or in part. By downloading literary works from kobobooks.com, the Registered User hereby acknowledges and agrees to these terms."

When I buy a Kobo book, who else am I authorised to allow to read it?

e.g.
Spouse?
Child?
Child at University?
Parent?
Sister-in-law?
Nephew?
Close friend?

Or no-one at all?

regards,

Paul Durrant

First (non-automated) response

Spoiler:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for contacting Kobo Customer Care. We’ve escalated your issue to our Tier 2 support team.

The Tier 2 team will try to provide a resolution as soon as possible and will contact you if they require additional information in order to resolve your issue.

Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns.

Sincerely,
The Kobo Team

Second non-automated response

Spoiler:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for contacting Kobo Customer Care. We are happy to offer clarification regarding "9. Literary Works. (Terms of Use)

In answer to your question, nobody - the only way you can share is by giving someone access to your account.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
The Kobo Team

Second Question

Spoiler:

Dear Kobo Customer Care,

Thank you for your response to my question, but it seems to be a technical rather than legal answer to my question. Obviously no-one is able read my books (the DRMed ones, anyway) unless they have access to my account, i.e. have a device authorised to my Adobe ID.

But I am asking about the licence terms.

May I let my spouse read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?
May I let my children read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?
May I let a close friend read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?

I'm sorry to go on about this, but I do want to understand how many copies of an ebook you expect a household to buy if everyone in the household wants to read it. Your licence terms seem to imply that a copy needs to be bought for everyone who wants to read the ebook.

Yours,

Paul Durrant.

Third Non-automated response

Spoiler:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for contacting Kobo Customer Care.

Legally, only the account holder has license to use the material.

Hope this clarifies.

Sincerely,
The Kobo Team

[Lynx-lynx]

Thanks Paul for posting the info.

I hope you don't think I was being tetchy with you, because that was not my intention.