Adobe Digital Editions 3.0 released

[sharphamster]

Yeah, Overdrive and my library access are my main concerns with this. I have another 8 months on my Brooklyn card, and I'm a pretty heavy user.

I'm planning on picking up a second-hand reader strictly for library books once Overdrive upgrades and we know which readers work with it. May even go with another K4NT, as they run about $30 on ebay and I can avoid the whole Adobe mess entirely.

For my present devices, it's no more syncing with the Sony or Kobo desktop software, so no unpleasant surprise "new features!!" screwing with my setups. I never turn the wifi on anyway, so I'm good until the inevitable crack happens.

[Mivo]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

It might take 1-2 years, but I think that a lot of people have a To Be Read pile that will last at least that long. Not buying any books for two years will make a serious dent in it.

After two years of not buying Adobe-DRMed books, I'd almost certainly have changed my purchasing habits to a degree where I would not revert back to buying from places who use it.

Actually, just this debate made me give money to Baen and explore their fantasy catalog more! (But as long as kepub can be cleaned, I don't have to avoid mainstream stuff.)

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by cybmole

no one has mentioned Overdrive / library books as yet ?

100s , maybe 1000s of libraries offer epubs via overdrive & with ADE DRM, will they be forced to migrate to the new scheme, is that even practical given their investment in books already at libraries ( we are talking millions of library owned epubs here ) & the huge customer base who are as of now borrowing books via overdrive onto all sorts of devices ?

I did bring it up a ways back I think because it is very important. No one currently has an eink reader that will work with the new drm. But maybe the publishers prefer it that way since most do not like library books.

[Jane12]

Originally Posted by TheSFReader

According to this tweet by Hadrien Gardeur, ACS5 has removed "passhash" which I think is B&N's DRM too.

@Akshayy, can you confirm whether or not this is true? Does ACS 5 support the optional "passhash" DRM that B&N uses, or has it been removed?

Also, since ADE 3 will open "passhash" DRM, does that mean RMSDK 10 supports "passhash" encryption?

Thanks!

[Akshayy]

Yes passhash is supported in ACS5. RMSDK10 supports opening passhash books.
They were not removed, I don't think anybody wants that removed.

[6charlong]

Originally Posted by ShellShock

Adobe says it is the publishers who are insisting that they harden their (Adobe's) DRM, to combat perceived loss of sales due to piracy. If this is the case, then will not the publishers also insist that Kobo harden the Kobo specific DRM that is used for kepubs (Kobo own epub wrapper)? Similarly for Amazon and Kindle's DRM, although Amazon is big enough to stand up to the publishers.

If stopping piracy is all this is about then the whole thing is unnecessary. Other industries, the movie industry in particular, already solved the problem.

The publishers are publishing to a new technology and have to adapt to the needs of a "machine age". Manufacturers found they had to enforce standardization of parts in order to proceed in the "machine age" over a century ago and the movie industry applied the principles to digital content.

I've been buying movies on disk for decades. My original AIWA was replaced with a Sony and I'm now using a Samsung: the movies work fine on all of them and I never even think of touching the DRM.

If the publishers really want a solid DRM solution then they need to demand standardization from the bookstores on the rendering equipment. It's ridiculous to require people to have to match their eReader to the store they buy a book from. The rendering engine should have nothing to do with the book.

ePub is an international, tax free, open standard but what matters is that they use a standard for how files are structured and how DRM is applied. There is no collusion involved in setting industry standards so use ePub or anything else, any standard would be better than this free-for-all that benefits no one except the fear mongers.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

ePub is an international, tax free, open standard but what matters is that they use a standard for how files are structured and how DRM is applied. There is no collusion involved in setting industry standards so use ePub or anything else, any standard would be better than this free-for-all that benefits no one except the fear mongers.

The problem is, unlike DVD/BD/Ultraviolet, epub is *not* a consumer product definition. It is also a pathetic excuse for a "standard". (Check the threads about epub3 for details. Rants on this can go for hours.)

The people behind epub have three times chosen *not* to define a consumer level standard: all they care about is defining a standard for their internal use and for their customers. Which are the distributors and big retailers, not consumers.

As evidenced by this brouhaha, consumers are literally the last concern of Adobe and its clients.

[6charlong]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The problem is, unlike DVD/BD/Ultraviolet, epub is *not* a consumer product definition. It is also a pathetic excuse for a "standard". (Check the threads about epub3 for details. Rants on this can go for hours.)

The people behind epub have three times chosen *not* to define a consumer level standard: all they care about is defining a standard for their internal use and for their customers. Which are the distributors and big retailers, not consumers.

As evidenced by this brouhaha, consumers are literally the last concern of Adobe and its clients.

I don't mean to argue the point, but it seems to me that the Publishing houses, big and small, have a vested interest in slowing or stopping piracy, and that they cannot achieve that without a standardized approach like that used for movies. Since they source content it seems possible for them to write their contracts with Kobo, Amazon, Google, etc. with the requirement that they all use the standard if they want to continue to sell content.

Without bringing this effort about it seems we still have an unenforceable security system that taxes everyone, benefits only the sellers of DRM and one (albeit very big) bookstore, while it inhibits the trade in books.

[goldilocks]

Wow, can't believe I read this entire thread!

It's a wonder I can use my reader at all since its not on the "Digital Editions Supported Devices" list! I do not foresee Sony updating the ereaders since it appears they are getting out of the eBook/ereader business.

Although I purchased plenty of eBooks I have also scanned many paperbacks. If I really want a book that will not work on my reader, because of DRM, I'll just have to purchase a second-(third-?) hand paperback and create my own eBook.

[Jane12]

Originally Posted by Akshayy

Yes passhash is supported in ACS5. RMSDK10 supports opening passhash books.
They were not removed, I don't think anybody wants that removed.

Thanks! Perhaps things will go okay with my Nook after all.

But this whole DRM situation is still maddening. I have a techno-phobic friend who finally decided to try ebooks and bought a Sony T2 last summer. While one would hope Sony will update the software on their latest reader (T3), I wouldn't count on it. And I'm highly doubtful that they will bother updating older models, like my friend's less-than-year-old T2, the T1 and PRS series, etc. Plus Sony has pulled their devices and bookstore out of the U.S. market, leaving my friend reliant on 3rd-party booksellers, like Kobo and Google Books.

Once booksellers and libraries start adopting this "hardened Adobe DRM," my friend won't be able to read any new books. And this is an ereader that's less than a year old and supposedly had the advantage of not being locked in to a single bookseller. Instead, she may soon be locked out of all booksellers and libraries. Does Adobe realize this is what's happening on the consumer end? Perhaps this new DRM will make the publishers happy, but it's a nightmare for the end-user -- i.e., the people who are just trying to read books.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

I don't mean to argue the point, but it seems to me that the Publishing houses, big and small, have a vested interest in slowing or stopping piracy, and that they cannot achieve that without a standardized approach like that used for movies. Since they source content it seems possible for them to write their contracts with Kobo, Amazon, Google, etc. with the requirement that they all use the standard if they want to continue to sell content.

Without bringing this effort about it seems we still have an unenforceable security system that taxes everyone, benefits only the sellers of DRM and one (albeit very big) bookstore, while it inhibits the trade in books.

That is one solution. They *chose* not to address the issue.
Others exist. None has been seriously pursued.

Consider that in politics sometimes the powers that be prefer an open contentious issue than an actual solution that might leave them without leverage with their partisans. It may be that the powers in publishing prefer to have the bogeyman of "widespread" piracy instead of an effective delivery mechanism that minimizes it.

Also, bear in mind that the unified standard delivery systems in video, music, console gaming, and comics have all been bypassed and pirate content is readily available to those willing to avail themselves of it, however they choose to rationalize it. I am not aware of any multivendor commercial content delivery mechanism that has not been bypassed and most of the hardward-based single vendor solutions have also been bypassed. (Note that I say bypassed, not broken. Actual content pirates have always had alternatives to brute-force cracking of protection systems.)

So far, the pirates always win.
Which does not, however, automatically imply anybody else actually loses.
(Again, a very long debatable issue, there.)

[ReadTillYouBleed]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

If stopping piracy is all this is about then the whole thing is unnecessary. Other industries, the movie industry in particular, already solved the problem.
...
I've been buying movies on disk for decades ... and I never even think of touching the DRM.

DVD's are hardly an example of piracy prevented, or DRM not circumvented. Wanting to play DVD's on Linux was one of the early incentives for breaking the DRM, and the more recent proliferation of portable devices (laptops without DVD drives, smart phones, tablets, etc) must have generated interest among at least some users in converting the movies they already own on DVD into a format that will play on those devices.

[6charlong]

Originally Posted by Jane12

Thanks! Perhaps things will go okay with my Nook after all.

But this whole DRM situation is still maddening. I have a techno-phobic friend who finally decided to try ebooks and bought a Sony T2 last summer. While one would hope Sony will update the software on their latest reader (T3), I wouldn't count on it. And I'm highly doubtful that they will bother updating older models, like my friend's less-than-year-old T2, the T1 and PRS series, etc. Plus Sony has pulled their devices and bookstore out of the U.S. market, leaving my friend reliant on 3rd-party booksellers, like Kobo and Google Books.

Once booksellers and libraries start adopting this "hardened Adobe DRM," my friend won't be able to read any new books. And this is an ereader that's less than a year old and supposedly had the advantage of not being locked in to a single bookseller. Instead, she may soon be locked out of all booksellers and libraries. Does Adobe realize this is what's happening on the consumer end? Perhaps this new DRM will make the publishers happy, but it's a nightmare for the end-user -- i.e., the people who are just trying to read books.

Don't worry, your friend will be okay with her Sony T2.

Just a word about Kobo: they are a Canadian company mated with a Japanese conglomerate, and worldwide they are a major player in ebooks. For the US market they chose to sell their products through independent bookstores. The Kobo readers have both the Adobe Mobile rendering engine and another one called ACCESS that is entirely independent of Adobe. Rakutan wanted their eReader to render text in Japanese, Chinese and Korean which the Adobe system couldn't do: hence dual rendering.

At the Kobo store you can buy standard (Adobe) ePub files and/or kePub files that support the Oriental languages. For the ePub you download an ACSM file to your PC and it will load the book you bought to Adobe ADE or the Sony Reader software, whichever you have associated with ePub files.

People do have to authorize their eReader with Adobe to use the Adobe Mobile rendering engine but if your friend has already purchased books from the Sony store then her T2 is already registered and it doesn't have to be done again.

I think it unlikely Sony will not update the Reader Mobile rendering engine used on the T1, T2 and T3 eReaders since they are still selling them outside the US, and because Sony is a responsible company. The fact they took the trouble to transfer customer's libraries to another company before they left the building is proof of that. What is yet to be seen is whether or not Kobo makes the ACCESS engine available on Sony equipment. If they do, it is much superior to the old Adobe ePub 2 engine. Adobe's ePub 3 engine is yet to prove itself.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by ReadTillYouBleed

DVD's are hardly an example of piracy prevented, or DRM not circumvented. Wanting to play DVD's on Linux was one of the early incentives for breaking the DRM

Yep.. Not supported by most distributions, it's a simple install. I've been playing DVDs on my various Linux distributions for years. And there's lots of Windows tools to do the same. Say after me... DRM does not prevent piracy.

[Hellmark]

I really am thinking that Sony will not update the firmware for their readers. Yeah they're transferring ebooks to Kobo, but was that because Sony is responsible, or because Kobo is offering money to do so? When every other company has exited the market, Kobo has been there, cash in hand, to take over.

Also, even if they are just being responsible as you say, but are they responsible enough to update firmware for devices that are technically no longer supported? The T3 isn't available in the US, and the T1 and T2 are not made or supported. Most companies, that's enough reason to not do anything. It also isn't outside of the realm for Sony to just say screw it and drop support, like they removed PS2 support from PS3's, including ones that originally had support for it. Just like they removed Linux support for the PS3. Just like they've killed off major system updates for so many of their Android cellphones. Sony doesn't do stuff out of the goodness of their heart.