Contemplating Kindle Paperwhite purchase, and I have a few conversion questions

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by cybmole

sorry but I don't believe you. list the titles please.

I have one of the largest epubs ever published -the complete Game of Thrones 5 volume saga, 4700 pages.

Is is ~10mb in epub 12mb in azw3. 8 of those would be 80mb, not 1,500 mb

My version of "Dark Wraith of Shannara", optimized for EPUB, is 22.8 MB, and only 32 pages long.

And you think that the Song of Ice and Fire 1-5 EPUB is the largest one ever published? Maybe so, if only looking to current works, but there are far larger ones. The Delphi Classics for one.

The Complete Works of Anthony Tollope: 49.5 MB, 25,859 pages (@2400 characters per page)
The Complete Works of Charles Dickens: 80.1 MB, 18,922 pages (@2400 characters per page)

And here's the kicker:

The Complete Works of Frank L. Baum: 134.1 MB, 8,033 pages (@2400 characters per page)

Pages have NOTHING to do with the size of an EPUB. The one by Frank L. Baum has the least number of pages by 2.5-3 times, but is by far the largest one.

Anyone who has one or more of the Delphi Classics can confirm my findings, and if you REALLY want to, I'll upload you some screenshots. edit: uploaded a screenshot.

I can easily believe that there are epubs around that are even more image-heavy than the compilation by Frank L. Baum (which is the largest I own); a compilation of old 60's pulp graphic novels, for example, in an EPUB optimized for tablets, or an ebook consisting of 1500 images of scanned pages because the text is in a font not suited to OCR reliably for example.

That you can't fathom it, doesn't mean it can't exist

(If one wants to know: I came by the AZW3 by converting the official and original EPUBs using Kindlegen, and then extracting an AZW3 from the resulting MOBI using KindleUnpack.)

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by cybmole

Also the kindle PW 2 has only 256 MB of RAM. total.
make the book bigger than that & it will likely choke on it. it could not even index such a book without using a page/swap file mechanism

I've never been able to try this, but the KPW1 opens the Frank L. Baum and Trollope EPUB instantly and flips through them as if they were short stories. It doesn't seem to load the entire book into the memory like Calibre does.

[Agama]

Originally Posted by VirgoGirl

Hello!!

I'm planning on a Paperwhite, but I'm curious if I can convert my current epubs to AZW3s instead of mobis to put on the Paperwhite - I think I read that they are smaller in filesize than mobis so I can fit more on the reader.

I didn't know if AZW3s can be read on the Kindle if they are not DRM'd AZW3s, I know I'd have to input my Kindle # into one of the Calibre tools for some odd reason (not sure what). My plan is to go Mobi>Epub (do any edits needed>AZW3 onto Kindle.

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!

Calibre does a good job of converting ePub to azw3 and the PW is quite happy to read non-DRM'd books. I would definitely avoid going via mobi as your ePub may lose some formatting. One thing to note on filesize is that the azw3 is usually almost twice the size of the ePub - and this does not seem to be calibre introducing any bloat but just the nature of azw3 format.

I do all my editing on ePubs and then convert to azw3 to use on both my readers, with a minor edit on the azw3 to rename the "calibre[nn]" styles to "cal[nn]" which saves a few Kb on a book.

As already mentioned in this thread, calibre now has an ePub/azw3 editor so you can do all your editing and conversion in one place.

[cybmole]

ok there are some big books out there - but 8 x copies of complete works of charles dickens is still only 480MB, way short of the claimed 1.5Gb !

anyway to put this to rest ?!
if you really must carry so many words & pictures around , then you don't go for loading converted epubs onto a reader that cannot take additional SD cards, or storage upgrades .Get one that can read SD cards, & with a nifty cover that also has 2 slots for spare SD cards.
like this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Navitech-Lea...ader+650+cover

With that setup , on a reader like say my old sony prs-650 you have the internal storage + 2 x SD cards slotted in, + 2 more slotted into the cover for quick swapsies

( and no faffing about with DRM removal. format conversion needed)

room for all the books mentioned so far + about 1/2 a million others

personally I still think cloud storage is the way to go .

not sure if there's an easy way for your web-enabled reader to browse & grab books from your google drive/ sky drive/ dropbox et al, but if not I expect someone will invent one.

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by cybmole

ok there are some big books out there - but 8 x copies of complete works of charles dickens is still only 480MB, way short of the claimed 1.5Gb !

anyway to put this to rest ?!

Stop your fixation on book size and move on to more constructive ideas. I don't use a Kindle but the suggestion to use azw3 seems solid, do you have any suggestions for the OP in regard to the purchase and use of the PW?

[cybmole]

ok well back to OPs needs.

seems she is making worst possibel for choice for 2 reasons.

1. evidence to-date suggests azw3 takes more space than same book in epub
2. of all the popular makes - kindle is the ony one that does NOT accept additional storage via SD card
http://www.the-ebook-reader.com/ebook-reader-table.html

So, if the the criteria are
1. scope for lots & lots of books. ..
2. stored in the most compressed format...

then Kindle is fail + fail

or have I missed something ?

she already owns the books( in the "wrong" format for PW) so Kindle + amazon server backup/ syncing is irrelevant.

Get a Sony T2 / T3 & slot in a micro SD card , then sideload all of the epubs - job done - 8 weeks battery life...

or a Nook, or a Kobo...

& a free dropbox account - for a full cloud based backup of the whole collection

[cybmole]

ps - here's how to access cloud storage ( drop box) with sony readers- I found this with Google - have not done this myself but if it works for sony T1 then it should work also for T2 & t3.
maybe it can be done with kindle PW - dunno - if so then it s another way of having even more books on tap:

Sony PRS-T1 can use Dropbox to transfer files from your gadget (i.e. computer, mobile phone). This is a really convenient way of transferring files without having to the Sony Reader PC software and connecting it with a USB cable. The steps are quite straightforward:
On the PC
Install Dropbox
Create a Dropbox account
Load up files into Dropbox
On the eReader:
Start basic browser
Go to www.Dropbox/m which is the mobile version of the website
Log in
Select files (eBooks) to download
Exit basic browser and go back to main menu, which shows the newly downloaded eBooks
Open eBooks

I may get around to testing it as my calibre library is backed up to dropbox already, but I have no need for this. I am happy with calibre + a USB cable

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by cybmole

sorry but I don't believe you. list the titles please...

...but if you do have individual epubs sized at 200+Mb, then I wish you luck converting those to kindle format - you will need it! ( and they could only possibly bloat to that size with embedded hi-def colour images, which will be compressed to monochrome on an e-reader anyway)...

cybmole, you need to understand that I really do not much care whether you believe me or not, nor do I much care if you continue to regard me as a liar (and your doing so makes you unworthy of a response to your challenge). Others have made it clear how and why large epubs exist and I have stated that I have some very large ones. Dismiss all of those views if you wish and you consider your own to be the superior.

You do not have to wish me luck in converting large epubs to kindle format because, as I pointed out, I do not possess a Kindle.

[unboggling]

@ cybmole and AnotherCat, is this a comedy act?

Originally Posted by VirgoGirl

Hello!!

I'm planning on a Paperwhite, but I'm curious if I can convert my current epubs to AZW3s instead of mobis to put on the Paperwhite - I think I read that they are smaller in filesize than mobis so I can fit more on the reader. ...

@VirgoGirl. Personally I'd go with a Sony and sideloading EPUBs, as I believe others suggested above. Or a different brand e-ink device that likes EPUB, since Sony seems to be de-emphasizing Reader sales. I started out using Kindles. I find EPUB to be better to work with than MOBI or even AZW3. Nearly all my books are EPUB only now. Why mess with what works? Keep it simple.

[VirgoGirl]

WOW!! Is this filesize argument like a guy thing? I can believe you can get some really huge ebooks, I'd just never read them.

I don't want to get a Sony as 1) I don't like the UI and 2) Sony is treating their ereader like an unloved stepchild, which to me means lack of support. Kobo's crappy support is bad enough, at least they recognize that they are responsible for it.

I have a Kobo, which is the ONLY other epub using device here in Canada. I don't want to read on a tablet as I am susceptible to eye strain, my ophthalmologist is pleased I read on e-ink instead. The ONLY reason for me to buy the Kindle is because I want stability and decent customer service. I doubt very highly Amazon will abandon Kindles entirely, EVER. Yes, I'd have to convert my epubs to mobi or azw3 (which as I saw are NOT smaller), but I'll do that for stability and support.

As for the argument of sticking thousands of ebooks onto a reader or sd card vs computers and cloud storage, everything you say makes perfect sense. BUT, what you are arguing against is an urge or NEED to have that many on the reader or card, kind of a mental issue - I fully admit to having a form of OCD about having a lot of books on my reader. In *my* case, it doesn't make sense, it's not logical, but as with other forms of mental illness it's not something you can convince someone out of. If it were, my mother's house wouldn't look like something out of "Hoarders". I'm just fortunate mine runs towards loading up ebooks onto my reader and not my house full of crap.

More logically based argument, when I accidentally damaged my previous XHD, I lost all the ebooks that were NOT on my micro SD card (luckily that was not a lot). I simply removed the card from the reader and copied over what I had to my laptop, then to the new XHD (at the time Kobos did not automatically delete the book from the card as it does now). As I now have about 12G worth of ebooks that can't be done, but I keep redundant copies on 3 regular SD cards, my laptop AND two 2T XHDs. And DVDs.

[unboggling]

Originally Posted by VirgoGirl

... The ONLY reason for me to buy the Kindle is because I want stability and decent customer service. I doubt very highly Amazon will abandon Kindles entirely, EVER. Yes, I'd have to convert my epubs to mobi or azw3 (which as I saw are NOT smaller), but I'll do that for stability and support.

I get it. Now you even have me seriously considering that.

Originally Posted by VirgoGirl

... More logically based argument, when I accidentally damaged my previous XHD, I lost all the ebooks that were NOT on my micro SD card (luckily that was not a lot). I simply removed the card from the reader and copied over what I had to my laptop, then to the new XHD (at the time Kobos did not automatically delete the book from the card as it does now). As I now have about 12G worth of ebooks that can't be done, but I keep redundant copies on 3 regular SD cards, my laptop AND two 2T XHDs. And DVDs.

Backups are good. But what if your house blows up by an anti-ebook terrorist while your family is on vacation? (Edit: oh, never mind. You'd probably have your sd cards and readers with you on the trip.)

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by unboggling

@ cybmole and AnotherCat, is this a comedy act?

It seems like it, doesn't it? The comedian was looking for a response from his audience so I gave him one .

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by VirgoGirl

The ONLY reason for me to buy the Kindle is because I want stability and decent customer service.

You can. Calibre will handle EPUB->AZW3 perfectly, as long as you don't go and try to convert gargantuan books with 20,000 pages like the Delphi Classics. (And even those can be handled if need be, by using KindleGen, and then extracting the AZW3 from there. I actually made a small script for that, posted somwhere on the forum...)

I doubt very highly Amazon will abandon Kindles entirely, EVER. Yes, I'd have to convert my epubs to mobi or azw3 (which as I saw are NOT smaller), but I'll do that for stability and support.

It works. Perfectly. I've been doing it for 2 years. The only two issues you may run in to are:

1. Huge books. (Like... >= 7500 pages). They may not convert. It can be circumvented by using Kindlegen and KindleUnpack.
2. Huge fonts. (Like >= 85 pixels high). They may not show up correctly and show as text of normal size. I don't know if this is a Calibre/Conversion issue, or a Kindle/AZW3 issue. I've only encountered this with the chapter headings of Feedbooks.com public domain books.

As for the argument of sticking thousands of ebooks onto a reader or sd card vs computers and cloud storage, everything you say makes perfect sense. BUT, what you are arguing against is an urge or NEED to have that many on the reader or card, kind of a mental issue - I fully admit to having a form of OCD about having a lot of books on my reader. In *my* case, it doesn't make sense, it's not logical, but as with other forms of mental illness it's not something you can convince someone out of. If it were, my mother's house wouldn't look like something out of "Hoarders". I'm just fortunate mine runs towards loading up ebooks onto my reader and not my house full of crap.

I've seen some episodes of the Dutch version of Hoarders. That can be... disturbing. Someone cramming 20.000 books into a house, or worse, having saved every (!) daily (!) issue of a newspaper from 1945 (subscription start) to 2012 (hoarders), all stacked in an appartment. The floor, and ceiling of the appartment below was starting to crack

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by cybmole

...but if you do have individual epubs sized at 200+Mb, then I wish you luck converting those to kindle format - you will need it!..

In case it is of help to those who convert from epub to azw3, for example, the above claim, as the generalisation it is, is incorrect, and I did a test as an example.

The largest epub in my library is 295.3 MB; on a not very great 64 bit PC (old Intel CoreDuo CPU) Calibre converted it to azw3 in under 20 seconds. The copy was slightly greater in size at 299.7 MB. Of course the integrity of the copy cannot {EDIT: should be "couldn't} be tested on a Kindle, but appeared perfect in Kindle for PC.

The reason is probably pretty obvious to most in that most of the volume of a large epub, for example, is as has been said by others, images. The images are of little overhead for the conversion, they being files that are simply transferred to the new book.

But, as Katsunami says, a large book comprising mostly of text and formatting may pose a problem.

{EDIT:for clarity; meaning I don't have a Kindle to test it on. The 295MB epub runs fine on my PRS-T1, I have no doubt that it is possible that the azw3 would work on a Kindle}

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

In case it is of help to those who convert from epub to azw3, for example, the above claim, as the generalisation it is, is incorrect, and I did a test as an example.

The largest epub in my library is 295.3 MB; on a not very great 64 bit PC (old Intel CoreDuo CPU) Calibre converted it to azw3 in under 20 seconds. The copy was slightly greater in size at 299.7 MB. Of course the integrity of the copy cannot be tested on a Kindle, but appeared perfect in Kindle for PC.

The reason is probably pretty obvious to most in that most of the volume of a large epub, for example, is as has been said by others, images. The images are of little overhead for the conversion, they being files that are simply transferred to the new book.

But, as Katsunami says, a large book comprising mostly of text and formatting may pose a problem.

Even then, I usually found that if you give it enough time (and this could mean hours) calibre will eventually manage it. It will get bogged down, but it's not crashing.

---

I have never understood the need for SD cards. The Kindle can still hold 1500 books (depending on the per-book avg. size) which should be enough even for a hoarder. I myself keep hundreds of books, many of which I don't plan on reading anytime soon, on my Kindle. Maybe that isn't a proof to anything, but it isn't necessary to have EVERY SINGLE BOOK YOU OWN on your device, visible to the ereader, and any attempt to do that may well be futile, whatever device you use. I would seriously suggest just keeping a nice thousand books, with the rest in calibre on your computer AND backed up to Dropbox and/or Copy.com is more than enough. And you will have enough reading material for at least a few months.

EVEN assuming you require extra padding in your library to cover all your bases -- lets say you decide you want to read "This" after you go on a road trip expecting to read "That", which I certainly can understand -- you will luckily have "This" too!