Baen Free CD's downloads

[Hrafn]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

Re Point 1 I agree that it must be both material & mutual. The material misunderstanding was whether or not the distribution would be via CD only or via CD & Internet. Some might not consider that material. I do.

No. Bujold's failure to understand that the terms of the contracted permitted Baen to publish the CD under the license it did, is not a "mutual misunderstanding". And it is the license that is the key element of this, not the CD or the internet (thumbdrives and USPS could have been used, if far less conveniently).

The mutual misunderstanding is that Baen apparently believed that Bujold understood what they were telling her. If they knew she didn't understand it then they committed fraud. I doubt that so I think there was misunderstanding on both sides.

No. There is no legal obligation on Baen's part to ensure that Bujold fully understood all implications of the contract. The claim that mere "misunderstanding" that the counterparty had misunderstood the terms of a contract (let alone the implications of those terms) constitutes "mutual misunderstanding" clearly obliterates the legally meaningful and determinative difference between "unilateral misunderstanding" and "mutual misunderstanding".

I would further point out that no party to the contract is questioning its legality.

As for the stealing, huh? The only people stealing Bujold's work are those who continue distributing it in defiance of her right to control the distribution. That's neither Baen nor 5th Imperium and I'm not sure how you think I said that. I'd only consider it stealing if they did that after being directly contacted by Bujold or her representatives (with cease & desist). Hearing 3rd hand that she doesn't want her works distributed wouldn't necessarily be believable so, in my opinion (FWIW) that wouldn't count as reasonable notice. (Re 5th Imperium I think contact by Baen would count as they were Bujold's representative at the time the CD was published.)

No. No. No. No. This is wrong in so many ways:

1. Bujold assigned most of her "right to control the distribution" to Baen under her publication contract with them. They would have been unable to publish her works otherwise. That being so, she has no legal right to interfere with what they do with her work unless either (i) what they do exceeds what the contract permits or (ii) the contract gives her relevant veto rights. Neither seems likely, nor have we been presented with any evidence that either is the case.
2. Baen then published Bujold's works under a license that permits anybody (5th Imperium or anybody else) to non-commercially copy or republish this work.
3. This license is a legal relationship between Baen (the copyright assignee) and the copier. Bujold has no legal standing in this relationship, so her "contact" (direct or otherwise) is legally meaningless.
4. I would therefore reiterate that anybody (non-commercially) copying the material contained on the CD, does so perfectly legally, as they do so under the terms of a license from the copyright's assignee.
5. Even if this were not legal it still WOULD NOT BE "STEALING". Legally, it is a "tort", not theft. Even analogously it would be closer to vandalism than theft, as the harm to the owner/victim is through damage to the value of the copyright, rather than outright deprival of it.

I would therefore suggest that calvin-c stop pontificating in such a hyperventilated manner (and particularly throwing the word "stealing" around with such ignorant abandon), at least until they have some understanding of the legal framework involved. "Meeting of the minds", "mutual misunderstanding" and theft all have well-defined legal definitions (i.e. they are 'terms of art'), and DO NOT mean what calvin-c appears to think they mean.

[theducks]

Bujold was negligent. Period.
Baen CD's were nothing NEW. The same re-distribution rules existed from the time of CD #1.
She clearly did not do her homework. What is more surprising: Her lack of knowledge about one of her normal publisher and their marketing policy.

Any take down notice would have to come from Baen as it was their CD being distributed, not Bujolds. Baen had the copyrights to the CD.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Ms. Bujold's Vorkosigan series have always been available from Baen, in multiple formats and with no DRM. Only recently have the ebooks appeared on Amazon.

http://www.baenebooks.com/s-13-lois-...er-bujold.aspx

And now also on Apple and B&N/ Nook

[Little.Egret]

I see on Amazon that Baen are to reprint Memory by Lois McMaster Bujold in tpb (Sept 2014) at which point a DRM free Memory ebook will again be available for new purchase.

http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Miles-V...dp/1476736731/

Memory was not on the Cryoburn CD and LMB has posted that its sales are significantly higher that the ebooks which are on that CD.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

I see on Amazon that Baen are to reprint Memory by Lois McMaster Bujold in tpb (Sept 2014) at which point a DRM free Memory ebook will again be available for new purchase.

Mmmm? This is a paperback and I see no indication that an ebook is going to be available. In fact there's a Tell the Publisher!
I'd like to read this book on Kindle link on the page.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Memory was not on the Cryoburn CD and LMB has posted that its sales are significantly higher that the ebooks which are on that CD.

It could also be that this latest book is bought because of the fact that the others are on CD: people have read a lot of her work for free, and now want it to be complete. It is certainly possible that many people who now buy Memory, would not have bought it otherwise, but we'll never know for sure.

I still think that the CD's were no problem in the time there weren't a lot of e-readers; they were just marketing. People would read some chapters on the computer, and end up buying the books anyway, in the end. Now that there are e-readers (instead of computers, laptops or PDA's), the CD's are a liability. Nobody who has an e-reader will buy the e-book or the paperback if they know of the existence of the Baen CD's.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Now that there are e-readers (instead of computers, laptops or PDA's), the CD's are a liability. Nobody who has an e-reader will buy the e-book or the paperback if they know of the existence of the Baen CD's.

Ok.. I've got to disagree. First off, only Ms. Bujold has complained and had her CD images removed. I see a large number of authors who's books still reside for free on The Fifth Imperium and, as far as I know, none of them have filed for bankruptcy.

Second, I have purchased *many* books by the authors of these CDs just *because* I got a free tryout of their writing. Getting legally free copies doesn't necessarily mean that authors will lose out.

But then, maybe it's just me. I like to support authors I like.

[Katsunami]

I take no stance toward Ms. Bujold's reactions or her ways of expressing discontent, but I can see how she is thinking. Some of those CD's contain *A LOT* of works; it seems that some even contain complete series if several CD's are combined. It may not have been a problem at the time those CD's were first distributed, because there were no e-readers; now that there are, along with a program such as Calibre to convert to newer formats, those CD's can be seen as a problem.

I don't know if she really "misunderstood" the terms with regard to distributing those CD's, and as said, I don't take a stance in that matter. What certainly is true is that she highly underestimated the impact of these CD's, caused mainly by the appearance of e-readers in 2006-2007. Suddenly, it became easy and above all, *convenient* to read e-books, increasing the worth of those CD's multiple times over.

If there hadn't been any e-readers (or tablets) now, I couldn't have cared less about the free Baen CD's.

(I didn't expect this thread to become a Bujold Bashing Bonanza; it certainly wasn't intended as such. I thought that this issue was long settled, and just wanted to provide a way to get a hold of the complete set of Baen CD's.)

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by Hrafn

I would therefore suggest that calvin-c stop pontificating in such a hyperventilated manner (and particularly throwing the word "stealing" around with such ignorant abandon), at least until they have some understanding of the legal framework involved. "Meeting of the minds", "mutual misunderstanding" and theft all have well-defined legal definitions (i.e. they are 'terms of art'), and DO NOT mean what calvin-c appears to think they mean.

Look, just drop it. You obviously don't know either what I said or what the law is, so just get lost, OK?

[Freeshadow]

it seems that some even contain complete series if several CD's are combined

no need to combine:

"Claws that catch" CD:

• all four "Looking Glass" books from Ringo & Doc Travis
• Doc Travis' both "Warp Speed" books

which I hereby highly recommend.

As far as "Memory" is concerned I'm damn glad I got it while it was still purchaseable via Baen directly.

[gbm]

For the people arguing about the legally or illegally of the cd on the Fifth Imperium here is the cd index page Orientation. It includes the cd license--the bold is mine.

Spoiler:

You are about to start playing with a new Baen CD-ROM. Welcome! It includes not only the latest book in the series, Cryoburn, but the ENTIRE Vorkosigan Saga in several formats—and The Vorkosigan Companion—all of it beautifully unencrypted and unencumbered. But wait, there’s more! Also on this disk are interviews with author Lois McMaster Bujold, and various other interesting tidbits including a sample of the French language Miles Vorkosiagn graphic novel! More than fourteen novels for free—and with no stupid codes to work around. Think of that.

What’s the catch? This disk and its contents may be copied and shared, but NOT sold. All commercial rights are reserved. That’s it.

Why are we being so generous? Simple: we think the more people who read Ms. Bujold’s works the more people will buy them. Say, one set of hardcovers for yourself, a set of paperbacks to lend out, possibly even the next ebook when it comes out. And if you like the Vorkosiverse, we’re pretty sure you’ll like other Baen books, too.

The reason for the plethora of formats is to try to please the people who want to read the novels on their iPads or other text-specialized palm-sized devices. There are also Rich Text Format versions of all the novels, which can be read by several applications--including Wordpad, MS Word and most word processors. (For .rtf, in Microsoft Word: use the Open command, then log onto your “Vorkosiverse” CD-ROM, specify .rtf format, load the file: [FileOpen, log onto “Vorkosiverse” disk, click on Rich Text Format extension on drop-down menu] double-click on the file you want.

All this is simple as pi for any computer geek, but if you become confused, try visiting www.Baen.com (just click on Baen.com on the opening screen of the CD) for the precise info you need. (Note that for the disk to work properly you need to have your computer logged on to the Internet, because several of the options assume that you are currently connected, and indeed will try to log you on if you are not.) Log on to the Bar (Click "Baen's Bar" assuming you have successfully loaded this CD ROM—otherwise, follow the directions from the main Baen.com webpage) and go to the topic "CD-ROM." Leave a query, and some Barfly will probably be delighted to help you.

The CD-ROM is strictly standard in its use of file structures and so forth, and when you insert it into your PC it will autorun—that is, run automatically. If you are on a Mac just select the CD in Finder and open the index.htm file.

You will be faced with a screen full of options. The most important one is the list of Vorkosiverse titles to the left. You are given the option of "downloading" the titles in several formats. For those of you who have Microsoft Word installed, the RTF format is best. (This is a debatable point, but hey, that’s what the Bar is for.) All others who do not want to use ebook readers or some such are advised to stick to the Internet browser format (html). The browser option is pretty bulletproof, and will allow you to read the manuscript on-screen with minimal fuss in the font color, style and size you prefer.

On the other hand, if you want to play with the disk and files, the structure is standard. Take any file manager that can handle CD-ROMs, including Microsoft Windows Explorer, and you can examine the CD's contents to your heart's delight. Any sound samples on Baen disks are all MP3, and the pictures are all JPG extensions, which will open automatically in any web browser you're using on your computer, whether PC or MAC.

Remember, there is nothing mysterious about the disk; if you are having trouble, your neighborhood guru can probably help you out, but she'll be dreadfully condescending about it. All content files remain functional after they have been moved to your hard drive. Enjoy.

PS When you grow tired of this disk come visit www.baen.com and click on ebooks, where there are hundreds more ebooks from your favorite Baen authors. The first three chapters of all our books are available for free tasting, and the entire contents of some books are available for free at the Baen Free Library. Dive on in!]

bernie

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Mmmm? This is a paperback and I see no indication that an ebook is going to be available. In fact there's a Tell the Publisher!
I'd like to read this book on Kindle link on the page.

All Baen books after 1999 were issued as ebooks (less two, no rights or tech problems since it was printed from film).

But they don't do Amazon preorders for ebooks hence the "Tell the Publisher" - indeed they don't do individual preorders on their own site http://www.baenebooks.com so the Baen Schedule http://baen.com/schedule.asp
goes from saying an ebook is N/A to a buy now link on the 16th of the month previous to publication.

I have suggested to Toni Weisskopf, High Lady of Baen to change N/A to "forthcoming".

You can order a $US18.00 Baen Monthly Bundle (complete month's books) up to 3 months in advance.

http://www.baenebooks.com/c-3-monthly-baen-bundles.aspx

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

All Baen books after 1999 were issued as ebooks (less two, no rights or tech problems since it was printed from film).

I'll take your word for it. It seems strange though, as I purchased the ebook from Baen sometime in 2011 and in fact it is still available for *me* to download. What's going to be different from my copy and this *new* ebook?

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

I'll take your word for it. It seems strange though, as I purchased the ebook from Baen sometime in 2011 and in fact it is still available for *me* to download. What's going to be different from my copy and this *new* ebook?

Quite likely an all-new author's afterword as for the Vorkosigan Omnibi and many Baen reprints.

Search publisher=Baen and Title contains "Second Edition" for examples of this being done for e-books for which the original edition is in the Baen Free Library.

[Freeshadow]

They have a lot of things NOT sorted out ATM after the reorganisation of the free library; e.g Cooks 2nd wiz biz book wanished from there but didn't reappeared in the purchaseable section yet. As a fact book one is still in free and the omnibus of 3 and 4 can be bought. The 2nd is n/a.