Android KitKat released

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Faterson

KitKat was both announced and launched on Nexus 5 on 1st November.

Yes, if you have a Nexus 5 then you have KitKat. If you don't want to wait your turn for KitKat then you can install it yourself. If all you want to do is whine while you wait then you can apparently do that too.

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

If you don't want to wait your turn for KitKat then you can install it yourself.

It's not about me but about the general user. Not even I wish to upgrade to KitKat using adventurous methods -- let alone general users. I also fail to see why simply discussing the issue should be characterised as "whining". I was sharing my surprise and wonderment with fellow MobileRead users as to how 17+ days are apparently not enough for Google to deliver the KitKat update to Nexus 7 users. As mentioned, Moon+ Reader Pro yesterday delivered an update for the app to use KitKat features -- yet KitKat itself is not yet available in the standard way! In other words, an individual app developer turned out to be quicker in delivering an update to his users than the provider of the operating system, the almighty mega-corporation Google.

[PatNY]

Because Android deals with dozens of different devices with dozens of different manufacturers and their attendant development teams, it's harder to roll out new versions then iOS. Even if one of those devices is Google's own. That device is also manufactured with another partner company.

I would think customers would want them to do it right rather than roll out something too hastily -- as in a half-baked maps app.

Besides, why the impatience? JellyBean is not going to expire anytime soon.

Whether they get KitKat yesterday, today, or two weeks from now is not important to most folks.

--Pat

[Faterson]

Not really "impatience"... but this particular OS update has a major impact on how e-books are displayed on Android devices, so I was wondering. Being able to consistently get rid of the 3 Android buttons in Moon+ Reader is a big deal; currently this only works when flipping pages with the volume button, but having to do that = being unable to touch the screen is often inconvenient. Screen real estate matters a lot.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Not really "impatience"... but this particular OS update has a major impact on how e-books are displayed on Android devices,

Only if the app specifically supports it. Which ones currently do?

[Faterson]

As mentioned a few posts back, Moon+ Reader Pro released an update yesterday to support KitKat's new "immersive mode". I wonder how that will work out, given that Moon+ uses the swipe-down gesture (used to reveal the 3 Android buttons when in "immersive mode") for something else normally -- whether there won't be interferences, or if we simply need to deactivate our currently used swipe-down gesture(s) in Moon+.

Anyway, books look fabulously in Moon+ when the 3 Android buttons are gone. I posted a couple of Moon+ screenshots here, with and without the 3 Android buttons:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...84#post2635184

You gotta admit that the 3 buttons totally spoil the visual effect currently! It will be a relief to see them banished permanently.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by Faterson

As mentioned a few posts back, Moon+ Reader Pro released an update yesterday to support KitKat's new "immersive mode". I wonder how that will work out, given that Moon+ uses the swipe-down gesture (used to reveal the 3 Android buttons when in "immersive mode") for something else normally -- whether there won't be interferences, or if we simply need to deactivate our currently used swipe-down gesture(s) in Moon+.

Anyway, books look fabulously in Moon+ when the 3 Android buttons are gone. I posted a couple of Moon+ screenshots here, with and without the 3 Android buttons:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...84#post2635184

You gotta admit that the 3 buttons totally spoil the visual effect currently! It will be a relief to see them banished permanently.

Just went ahead and installed Moon+ on my N10 to see how the immersive mode works. It's certainly beautiful, the whole screen for the text with no distractions. You can still scroll up and down as long as you don't do it from the very top, which brings back the system and navigation bars. You're missing out

[Faterson]

Thanks for the report. Well, at least there's something to look forward to every day! (Not too many more days, I hope.) That "immersive mode" is already available in Moon+ in earlier Android versions, as long as you flip the pages with the volume button only -- it's just too inconvenient. Also, you then need to tap the screen twice to get to see Moon's toolbar -- whereas in KitKat, it should only be a single tap on the screen; that will definitely be nice and time-saving.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Not really "impatience"... but this particular OS update has a major impact on how e-books are displayed on Android devices, so I was wondering. Being able to consistently get rid of the 3 Android buttons in Moon+ Reader is a big deal; currently this only works when flipping pages with the volume button, but having to do that = being unable to touch the screen is often inconvenient. Screen real estate matters a lot.

I don't think immersion is as big a deal on devices with 7" or larger screens. It certainly won't make a big difference with text-based books in Moon+ or Mantano on devices of that size for me. For PDF's it's a more significant enhancement, however.

That's because both those apps already hide the android buttons and top nav bar in reading mode -- at least on my Nooks. Those areas just go to plain black when reading. Are your settings incorrect? Do you have "Full Screen Mode" in settings checked?

I can imagine the only difference with immersion on a device with a 7" or larger screen will be about .5" extra in the page size ... but as I said, on devices of that size, that is pretty insignificant.

That "immersive mode" is already available in Moon+ in earlier Android versions, as long as you flip the pages with the volume button only -- it's just too inconvenient. Also, you then need to tap the screen twice to get to see Moon's toolbar -- whereas in KitKat, it should only be a single tap on the screen; that will definitely be nice and time-saving.

No, on my devices the view using the volume buttons is the same as when you tap or swipe the pages. Also, you DON'T need to tap the screen twice on my device to see the Moon's toolbar. I only have to tap it once.

As I said, check your settings.

I think what you're complaining about that you don't have, you might have had all along.


--Pat

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by PatNY

I don't think immersion is as big a deal on devices with 7" or larger screens.

I strongly disagree. The row with the 3 Android buttons is a significant waste of screen real estate, and it looks ugly, too.

Originally Posted by PatNY

Those areas just go to plain black when reading.

That's unacceptable to me. It still wastes a significant amount of screen real estate (for me, corresponding to 1-2 lines of text on every "page"), and it destroys the aesthetic pleasure of looking at the page. Check out the 2 screenshots linked above -- I hope you'll admit that the first of those screenshots looks perfectly hideous with the black bottom bar intruding on the very nice "old book" layout theme there.

Originally Posted by PatNY

Do you have "Full Screen Mode" in settings checked?

Everything is checked as it should be, but there is no help on Jelly Bean, other than flipping pages with the volume button on the new Nexus 7. Please understand that every Android device may behave a bit differently running the same software, so I can only congratulate you if you're not seeing the same things I am. I also wrote to the Moon+ developer back in the Jelly Bean era, and he replied there was simply nothing he could do to ensure true full screen in Jelly Bean on the Nexus 7. Fortunately, this will no longer be important now under KitKat.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by Faterson

I strongly disagree. The row with the 3 Android buttons is a significant waste of screen real estate, and it looks ugly, too.

Again, the buttons don't show if you use the right settings. As for the row being a "significant" waste of space, it depends. On smaller devices, yes. On bigger devices with 6-7" or larger screens it is relatively insignificant, especially when talking about text-based books with flowable text. PDFs or graphics-based books are a different matter, and I think every little bit of screen space then counts, no matter what the size of the device.

That's unacceptable to me. It still wastes a significant amount of screen real estate (for me, corresponding to 1-2 lines of text on every "page"), and it destroys the aesthetic pleasure of looking at the page. Check out the 2 screenshots linked above -- I hope you'll admit that the first of those screenshots looks perfectly hideous with the black bottom bar intruding on the very nice "old book" layout theme there.

No, I don't agree at all. Even with immersion, most will be looking at a black border around their pages (most devices are black or dark grey). So from a purely aesthetic point of view, I don't see why it would matter a whole lot if that border was 1/4" larger on the top and bottom sides.

On my 7" device, I currently get around 30 lines of text on a page. It is not going to make my reading experience significantly better if I get 31 or 32 instead. I would bet most folks using 7" or larger devices would agree on this point (the difference between 30 and 31/32 lines being insignificant).

Everything is checked as it should be, but there is no help on Jelly Bean, other than flipping pages with the volume button on the new Nexus 7.
Please understand that every Android device may behave a bit differently running the same software, so I can only congratulate you if you're not seeing the same things I am. I also wrote to the Moon+ developer back in the Jelly Bean era, and he replied there was simply nothing he could do to ensure true full screen in Jelly Bean on the Nexus 7. Fortunately, this will no longer be important now under KitKat.

Yes, there are differences, but we're talking basic Moon+ and Mantano functionality here. I find it hard to believe I can hide the buttons when using all page turn options in reading mode on my Nook HD/HD+ running ICS under the stock OS and those with the newest Nexus 7 running Jelly Bean can't.

If that is the case, then I stand corrected and indeed feel lucky that I kept my stock B&N ROM rather than replace it with a custom one, as I use my Nook tablets primarily for reading.

However, I think you might want to check your settings anyway. Are you sure you have "Full Screen Mode" in Moon's settings checked? I'm also surprised if Jelly Bean made a difference in how many times you had to tap the screen in order to bring up Moon's nav bars and menus. I just need to tap the center of the screen once.

--Pat

[Faterson]

Yes, I am certain of everything I said. Have you checked those screenshots? It's absoluteely hideous and unacceptable for the black bar to be protruding there. Also, it's a significant and unacceptable waste of screen real estate for me, especially on a small tablet like Nexus 7. You don't mind that, and that's fine for you, but please understand I'm a different person from you. I'm not obliged to share your sentiments as to what constitutes a significant waste of screen real estate.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Yes, I am certain of everything I said. Have you checked those screenshots? It's absoluteely hideous and unacceptable for the black bar to be protruding there. Also, it's a significant and unacceptable waste of screen real estate for me, especially on a small tablet like Nexus 7. You don't mind that, and that's fine for you, but please understand I'm a different person from you. I'm not obliged to share your sentiments as to what constitutes a significant waste of screen real estate.

What screenshot? Please provide a precise link.

If you don't like black bordering the page, then the immersion isn't going to make a difference. You're STILL going to have black bordering your page as the Nexus 7 device is black.

Of course I understand you're different, and we can agree to disagree about the point on the wasted space. But I also think you may have your settings wrong in Moon+ or you don't understand how to use it. Because you don't need to tap twice to bring up its menus.

--Pat

[Faterson]

For heaven's sake, the link to the two screenshots is right above:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...84#post2635184

I'm not talking about any bordering, but about a huge, massive, fug-ugly bottom bar intruding upon Moon+'s selected layout theme. The only way to get rid of it on the new Nexus 7, is to flip pages using the volume button. The only way to bring back Moon+'s toolbar if you do that, is to tap the screen twice.

Again, understand that every Android device may behave differently and that the Nexus 7 behaviour has been discussed with and confirmed by the Moon+ developer. If you're unable to grasp these fundamentals, no discussion is possible.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by Faterson

For heaven's sake, the link to the two screenshots is right above:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...84#post2635184

There are numerous (more than two) screenshots on that page. It's really not clear which ones you are referring to.

I'm not talking about any bordering, but about a huge, massive, fug-ugly bottom bar intruding upon Moon+'s selected layout theme. The only way to get rid of it on the new Nexus 7, is to flip pages using the volume button. The only way to bring back Moon+'s toolbar if you do that, is to tap the screen twice.

Also, are you objecting to a solid black buttonless bar while reading or the 3 android buttons you talk about above when you said: "Being able to consistently get rid of the 3 Android buttons in Moon+ Reader is a big deal."

It's really not clear what you are objecting to.

Maybe you would like to clarify.

--Pat