SF/Fantasy Poll

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by peterbbb

But, SF - I like the political and social nature of societies that SF deals with. The "magic" stuff in fantasy seems a little like the same attraction that heavy metal has. Teenage boys and teenage fantasy... I think the characterisation is even weaker in fantasy than it is in SF - but neither are universally strong in that area. But boys don't do feelings - so that is ok.

What if the fantasy deals with political and social outcomes of magic? E.g. Ursula LeGuin's Tehanu and The Other Wind, or even Garth Nix's Ahorsen series? And I will grant you that there are weak examples of characterization in SF or fantasy, but I think that's true of any genre. There's an awful lot written that is not "teenage boy" stuff, in any case.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Apologies for the goof, but I stand by my basic point.

No worries

Of course if you where correct and Lorentz did prove relativity.... I would have used Lorentz in my example and you would have been commenting that Einstein was within 1yr of predicting relativity.

.... wasn't there a SF book that postulated while the facts/names change the outcome was always the same?

=X=

[DDHarriman]

As I state in another post, no… no… and no… do not mixture Science Fiction with the other thing…

Of course, in the pool I have chosen Science Fiction.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

As I state in another post, no… no… and no… do not mixture Science Fiction with the other thing…

Of course, in the pool I have chosen Science Fiction.

And I repeat the question I asked in my reply to that thread.

Before you can say such things, you have to define SF and fantasy, so you can say which a book is. Good luck...
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Dennis

[DDHarriman]

I know what it is (for me at least), do you not?

And please do not say what I can say... I respect utterly your posts and I know it's not your way...

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

I know what it is (for me at least), do you not?

See my post in the other thread

And please do not say what I can say... I respect utterly your posts and I know it's not your way...

I'm not attempting to tell you what you can say. Say what you please.

I simply think that stating "This is SF, and this isn't" isn't as simple as you might think.

You have your definition, but does yours correspond to the ones held by anyone else? I don't know what your definition is, so I can't say. There have been many thousands of words written about this, for as long as I've been reading the genre, and I don't recall seeing any firm conclusion.

Personally, I see SF and fantasy as sub-categories of a larger field called fantastic fiction, and they are not separate and distinct. There is considerable overlap, a fair number of cases where you can argue it either way, and a few where the only plausible answer is that a book is both.
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Dennis

[Dave Berk]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Doh!

You're absolutely right; my apologies. Given that I've written textbooks on EM, I really should know that, shouldn't I? . A "senior moment", obviously.

OK, then, not Maxwell (clearly!) but once the results of the Michelson-Morley experiment became well-known, people like Fitzgerald and Lorentz were postulating what were basically expressions of SR. They would have got there pretty soon, I'm sure.

Apologies for the goof, but I stand by my basic point - that both relativity and quantum theory were made more or less inevitable by the knowledge gained by experimental physicists in the final decades of the 19th century. "Classical" physics just couldn't stand up to the reality of the experimental results.

There's a common saying, I don't remember by whom, that "great creative breakthroughs always seem simple in retrospect"

[dickon25]

Quote:
I'm just about to start Game of Thrones, 1st in the Song of Fire and Ice series by George Martin. I haven't read any of his stuff yet so wish me luck!!

I wish you joy, actually. George is an old friend, and you have a treat in store.
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Dennis

Well, you were right Dennis!! A third of the way in and can't put it down. Out of interest, did Mr Martin ever discuss with you the inspiration for the story? I only ask because it has startling similarities to the Edward IVth/Richard III and Elizabeth Woodville situation from English history?

(Apologies if this has been discussed at length elsewhere but I've just arrived at the books!)

Chris

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by dickon25

Quote:
I'm just about to start Game of Thrones, 1st in the Song of Fire and Ice series by George Martin. I haven't read any of his stuff yet so wish me luck!!

I wish you joy, actually. George is an old friend, and you have a treat in store.
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Dennis

Well, you were right Dennis!! A third of the way in and can't put it down.

Out of interest, did Mr Martin ever discuss with you the inspiration for the story? I only ask because it has startling similarities to the Edward IVth/Richard III and Elizabeth Woodville situation from English history?

I don't know. It's not something we discussed. George lives in Tuscon, AZ, these days, and I'm in NYC, so we run into each other at the occasional SF con. His lady, Parris, is another old friend from the days we were all on the East Coast. "The Game of Thrones" dates from well after he moved West.

It's entirely possible George did use that as the inspiration. He writes nuanced stuff that isn't simple good vs evil tales. His characters are all behaving as they feel they must given the situation. Unfortunately, it puts them in conflict with each other.

(Apologies if this has been discussed at length elsewhere but I've just arrived at the books!)

Not that I'm aware of. Discuss away!

Chris

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Dennis

[dickon25]

It's entirely possible George did use that as the inspiration. He writes nuanced stuff that isn't simple good vs evil tales. His characters are all behaving as they feel they must given the situation. Unfortunately, it puts them in conflict with each other.

......which is the exact similarity with historical events around Richard III. His brother the king was married to Elizabeth Woodville, who surrounded the king with her rapacious and avaricious relatives. Once the king died, Richard had little choice but to oppose the Woodville influence, in order to secure his own hereditary rights. The parallels in the book suggest that Robert the King will soon die, his wife's rellies will try to grab the throne, Eddard will oppose them, civil war will result and the kingdom will fall to a third party from overseas.......... (is there any point in my continuing to read the book??........)
Wonderful stuff.

[Tattncat]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Technically, that stuff is considered "Paranormal Romance", so you're safe.


Lots, thankfully.
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Dennis

I read primarily Fantasy/Paranormal and then Sci Fi. I would love to see some of Tor's books come out in eBook formats. Especially Robert Jordans Series.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Tattncat

I read primarily Fantasy/Paranormal and then Sci Fi. I would love to see some of Tor's books come out in eBook formats. Especially Robert Jordans Series.

You're likely aware of the ebook giveaway did for about 20 weeks to publicize their redesigned and revamped web site.
Patrick Neilsen Hayden, their Editorial Director, stated that their parent company, Macmillan, was in the process of digitizing their entire catalog, and that more ebooks could be expected from them.

The Wheel of Time is an open question. A report elsewhere claims Robert Jordan was opposed to ebook publication of his work. His wife (who was also his editor) now controls the rights. I don't know if Harriet shares her late husband's opinion on the matter.
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Dennis

[Penforhire]

An interesting point was made earlier but I phrase it a little differently. SF is more tolerant of weak characters than most fiction. Yet the best SF equals the best "other" literature for me. This might be a tradition in SF (love my Ben Bova) but there is an equal pile of infantile drivel coming from the fantasy genre. You might say the same exists in mainstream fiction but I don't notice it as much.

Jack McDevitt and John Ringo are good modern examples because they are both guilty pleasures of mine. The plots engage me enough to (usually) forgive their weak characters. The novels are enjoyable enough to read but they do not create the symphony's in my head that, say, Gene Wolfe or Robert Anton Wilson do for me.

SF is more tolerant, to me, because a brilliant plot can contain enough interest to overshadow the characters themselves. Geopolitical fiction can work the same way for me. Tom Clancy, for example, engages me while I realize most of his characters are not fully fleshed and motivated with real complexity.

[ProDigit]

I think in essence Fiction is always fantasy, because it's a non-real,non-happened world that the author tries to create.

However fiction fantasy stuff, and Science Fiction are 2 different worlds.
Most writers always combine of both aspects,like they also add action, a bit of romance,and maybe suspense/ triller, to spice the story.

but a pure science fiction, and a pure fantasy novel I'd probably not read.
I do however tend to read SF with as little fantasy as possible.
I like tech stuff,I like science, but I also like a story about life on another planet.
Just as long as stories don't get to where Japanese anime for kids is getting to; like people flying in the air, saying 'superpower fireball', and destroy the planet, while at the same time they die when they receive a minor punch that throws them to a rock, and gives them a little blood out of their mouth.

I'm not for those stories were Ecci-neesan happily humps around the block, sees a bad guy,and then calls on the powers of the sex demons that haunt her to totally obliterate her evil oponent.

Neither where for an unknown reason light comes out of a little magic box, and Poow-Poow,the gigantic bear-dog that can fly, takes little piu-chan to a babypink and blue world full of rainbows and gigantic purple mushrooms... if you know what I mean...

I'd prefer science fiction over fantasy by lots here...

[MickeyC]

I think the reason I don't care for Fantasy is that it never happened. Sci Fi, OTOH, could happen.