Where to put the CIP?

[Psymon]

Hope I'm posting this in the correct forum here -- and I suppose this might actually be a question to ask Library & Archives Canada (LAC), but they're closed on the weekend so I thought I'd toss it out here and see if anyone has any thoughts...

I'm a bit confused about something. I'm working on my very first ebook, and while scouring these forums and elsewhere all over the 'net, I was curious about how others set up the front matter, more specifically the CIP data. Although I do actually like perusing that info in books (call me weird), at the same time even in print books I always found it to be an "ugly" part of the beginning of a book, that it would be so much nicer if they'd stuck it at the end -- like, as part of a colophon or something.

I did come across one or two sites on epublishing where they actually recommended doing just that -- basically to provide a very simple, short copyright notice at the beginning of the ebook and then just link it to the full CIP at the end of the book. That made sense to me, and so while designing my ebook, that's exactly what I did -- and it worked out really nicely, the first bunch of pages flowed very well from page-to-page, especially when viewed in iBooks in two-page landscape mode (I currently don't have any other ereaders I can test my book out on).

And then the other day I got my CIP data from the LAC, and in their email with that they state, rather unequivocally:

Print the CIP data on the verso of the title page without alteration to sequence, punctuation, capitalization or format.

That totally screwed up my lovely design -- at least as far as viewing it in two-page landscape mode goes (it wouldn't matter so much if/when viewed as a single page, one page at a time). I was surprised to read that in their email, though, since I'd read elsewhere the recommendation to plop the CIP at the end of the book instead (with a link from a small copyright notice at the beginning).

I can call the LAC and ask them about that on Monday, of course, but in the meantime does anyone else out there have any thoughts on that? Are they really that strict about where the CIP goes?

Thanks in advance!

[gmw]

I've read similar instructions regarding ISBN etc. I suspect the instructions can only practically apply to print editions - since an ebook has no "verso of the title page". I would suggest, however, that the intention is that the material is expected at the start even in ebooks. I have laid out my ebook editions the same as my paper edition, largely because I think it is better to have the pieces in predictable locations for those that want to find them.

The issue of front matter is not critical to Kindle editions, since they will jump to the (marked) start of text automatically, I'm not sure what other readers will do that (my Sony doesn't).

I, too, tend to peruse the front matter of any book I pick up, but I suspect that isn't a good recommendation for normality . I couldn't say why I started doing it, but these days it's almost a ritual (what was that I was saying about normality? )

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by gmw

I've read similar instructions regarding ISBN etc. I suspect the instructions can only practically apply to print editions - since an ebook has no "verso of the title page".

Well, in iBooks it does, when you're in two-page landscape mode -- it's basically like a print book.

"Technically", I'm certainly not averse to putting my CIP there, but it's just that I'd gone ahead with that idea of having it at the back instead, and came up with a design that works so wonderfully in that way -- putting it back at the beginning again (i.e. an extra "page" at the beginning) throws everything outta wack, at least when viewed in that two-page mode. I suppose it doesn't matter for readers that don't do that in the same way that iBooks does.

I guess maybe I'll just have to call LAC on Monday (unless anyone else has any thoughts/experience with this, i.e. they've published here in Canada with the CIP at the back and didn't encounter any heat from LAC).

I, too, tend to peruse the front matter of any book I pick up, but I suspect that isn't a good recommendation for normality . I couldn't say why I started doing it, but these days it's almost a ritual (what was that I was saying about normality? )

That's comforting -- I don't quite feel so alone in my abnormality.

[kennyc]

What's CIP? Maybe that's the confusion.

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by kennyc

What's CIP? Maybe that's the confusion.

Ha ha -- "cataloguing in publication" (or "cataloging" for the Yankees out there, of course). You know, all that stuff one generally finds on the verso of the title page in print books.

[Psymon]

Just to follow up on my initial query here... I spoke with Library & Archives Canada today, and asked whether there was any issue with my putting the CIP data at the back of my book (and having a small, short'n'sweet copyright notice on my title page that would also link to the full CIP at the back), and they said no problem!

So if anyone else applies for CIP and then gets the email saying that is "has" to go right after the title page, rest assured that's not a strict rule (although the typographic formatting of the full CIP data is).

[kennyc]

I've seen books published with that sort of thing....'continued in back' etc...

Glad you worked it out!