Is there a dedicated device for eReader format?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

I have to say of all the formats out there at the moment, I think I am least interested in supporting Mobi/Kindle. They don't support Macs, iPod touches or Linux (despite the fact that must of the devices using Mobi, use Linux).

Mobi has announced plans for an iPhone/iTouch port. Lack of support for OS/X is inexplicable. Since the iPhone/iTouch apparently use a mobile version of OS/X, we may see Mac support, too. It would be nice...

Mobi actually did release an alpha of the command line Mobigen book creator app for Linux, and have a Java version of the reader for mobile devices, so a Java reader for Linux is a possibility.

Mobi's problem is being a small shop with limited development resources. There are an assortment of platforms it would be nice to have Mobi running on, but who is going to do the port?

eReader on the other hand supports most platforms except linux but it currently doesn't have a dedicated device. If it gets one, count me in.

It has the most friendly DRM scheme, but content creation is a bit more problematic. Mobipocket essentially uses encapsulated HTML. eReader uses PML, which is an unrelated markup language. The DropBook command line eReader book converter is free, but you have to have PML content to feed it, and automated solutions for creating that are scarce. (There is a Word macro package or two that will generate a PML file from a word document.)

Mobi Creator is freeware, and can take Word documents, PDF files, HTML, and text files as input and spit out a Mobi file. Some things work better than others (PDF conversion is erratic), but it's possible to feed Creator a source file and get a Mobi file without doing anything to the source file. eReader takes a bit more doing.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Selzernium

I agree eReader is equal best or the best format out there[least intrusiv DRM, dictionary look up support, great appliction atleast in windows platform] or there abouts...

It works nicely on Pam OS devices, too, and originated on that platform as Peanut Reader, a program created to read ebooks in the PML format created by Peanut Press, an early ebook publisher targeting Palm OS devices.

I only wish Sony would support it and it would be a neat and cheap way of taking the fight to the mobi/amazon Juggernaut...

Sony is supporting ePub and Adobe DE. The former will likely be significant down the road. Many major publishers use Adobe InDesign for markup, and InDesign can create ePub files, so ebooks can be created as part of the standard production process. We simply need more devices that support ePub as a "native" format.

Until that happens, ePub is a good base format, containing all of the data needed, and it shouldn't be all that hard to create conversion software that takes an ePub file as input and spits out a Mobi, Sony LRF, eReader, PDF, or other file in an automated fashion, for folks using devices that don't handle ePub files.
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Dennis

[DaleDe]

Conversion of ePUB to Mobi already exists. The latest Mobi Reader for the PC will convert an ePUB file if you just drag it to the reader.

Dale

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Conversion of ePUB to Mobi already exists. The latest Mobi Reader for the PC will convert an ePUB file if you just drag it to the reader.

I know. I was talking about things publishers could put into a pipeline as an automated process: Manuscript -> InDesign -> ePub -> Mobi/LRF/eReader/etc., so generating eBooks happens automatically as part of the workflow producing books.

Mobigen also seems to support ePub as an input format, but I haven't rested it.
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Dennis

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Mobi has announced plans for an iPhone/iTouch port. Lack of support for OS/X is inexplicable. Since the iPhone/iTouch apparently use a mobile version of OS/X, we may see Mac support, too. It would be nice...

Mobi actually did release an alpha of the command line Mobigen book creator app for Linux, and have a Java version of the reader for mobile devices, so a Java reader for Linux is a possibility.

Mobi's problem is being a small shop with limited development resources. There are an assortment of platforms it would be nice to have Mobi running on, but who is going to do the port?

I don't buy the "Mobi is a small shop" argument"; they are owned by Amazon!
If the development group for Mobi is small, it is small because Amazon wants it that way. Shoot, I can't imagine Stanza and eReader development teams are any larger than Mobi's, and they have both produced very credible readers for both OSX and the iPhone/Pod.

I think it basically comes down to this. Amazon is in the market of producing and selling the Kindle and books for the Kindle. Mobi was bought so Amazon could adapt their technology to the Kindle, and then make sure that Kindle Books could not be read anywhere but on Kindles. (Strike 1 in my book). They of course license the Mobi software to other vendors, but only if they agree not to also support other DRM'd content. By keeping most of the devices down to Mobi devices, they can hope that ultimately users of such devices can upgrade to Kindles when they are released in different countries. Ultimately, the iPod Touch/iPhone, because of its popularity, has a real chance to become the dominant player in the eBook market. The last thing Amazon wants to do is undermine Kindle sales ... I think, ultimately, they held off on the development of an iPhone version because they were afraid it would eat into Kindle sales. Now that eReader, Stanza and Bookshelf are getting a lot of attention (not to mention lots of sales of eBooks for eReader) they are promising to come into the market.

The problem for Mobi (but I think a win for eReading in general) is that it may already be too late for them to capture the bulk of e-Book readers on the iPod Touch. The only people who really care about it are the people who already have a significant DRM'd Mobi Library. The rest of us, are happily enjoying reading on our little iPods.

It has the most friendly DRM scheme, but content creation is a bit more problematic. Mobipocket essentially uses encapsulated HTML. eReader uses PML, which is an unrelated markup language. The DropBook command line eReader book converter is free, but you have to have PML content to feed it, and automated solutions for creating that are scarce. (There is a Word macro package or two that will generate a PML file from a word document.)

Mobi Creator is freeware, and can take Word documents, PDF files, HTML, and text files as input and spit out a Mobi file. Some things work better than others (PDF conversion is erratic), but it's possible to feed Creator a source file and get a Mobi file without doing anything to the source file. eReader takes a bit more doing.
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Dennis

Shoot Dennis, if that is all it takes, just give me the specs, and I will see what I can do... I won't touch Word and maybe not PDF... but it should be easy enough to write a script that will convert txt and html to pml which then can be piped to DropBook.

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Bill

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Shoot Dennis, if that is all it takes, just give me the specs, and I will see what I can do... I won't touch Word and maybe not PDF... but it should be easy enough to write a script that will convert txt and html to pml which then can be piped to DropBook.

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Bill

the specs for PML are on the wiki and there are links to the eReader site for more data.

Dale

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

I don't buy the "Mobi is a small shop" argument"; they are owned by Amazon!

Being part of a much bigger organization doesn't mean your division automatically has access to more resources.

If the development group for Mobi is small, it is small because Amazon wants it that way. Shoot, I can't imagine Stanza and eReader development teams are any larger than Mobi's, and they have both produced very credible readers for both OSX and the iPhone/Pod.

I agreed, but same difference. Mobi has X developers, where X is almost certainly < 10, and they are developing and maintaining for Windows, Windows Mobile, Palm OS, Symbian and several other things. I suspect they're spread a little thin.

I think it basically comes down to this. Amazon is in the market of producing and selling the Kindle and books for the Kindle. Mobi was bought so Amazon could adapt their technology to the Kindle, and then make sure that Kindle Books could not be read anywhere but on Kindles. (Strike 1 in my book).

And Amazon uses a different form of DRM than Mobi itself, so purchased Mobi content from elsewhere can't be read on the Kindle. I've no doubt Mobi is thrilled about that move...

They of course license the Mobi software to other vendors, but only if they agree not to also support other DRM'd content. By keeping most of the devices down to Mobi devices, they can hope that ultimately users of such devices can upgrade to Kindles when they are released in different countries.

Possibly. I believe Mobi's "You may only license our software if no other DRM format is used" policy predates the acquisition by Amazon. It was inexplicable then, unless they hoped to drive customers to their store to buy ebooks by preventing the device from reading other protected formats.

Ultimately, the iPod Touch/iPhone, because of its popularity, has a real chance to become the dominant player in the eBook market. The last thing Amazon wants to do is undermine Kindle sales ... I think, ultimately, they held off on the development of an iPhone version because they were afraid it would eat into Kindle sales. Now that eReader, Stanza and Bookshelf are getting a lot of attention (not to mention lots of sales of eBooks for eReader) they are promising to come into the market.

That will be interesting if so, though I'll believe an Amazon Mobi viewer for the iPhone when I see one. Part of the question is how much of a factor the larger eInk screen is in the purchase decision. I've encountered folks with readers and iPhones for reading, because they may not carry the reader everywhere, but they always carry the phone.

Others think the iPhone is a potential Kindle killer, too:

Forbes: iPhone Steals Lead Over Kindle

Tom's Guide: Could the iPhone Kill the Kindle?

The problem for Mobi (but I think a win for eReading in general) is that it may already be too late for them to capture the bulk of e-Book readers on the iPod Touch. The only people who really care about it are the people who already have a significant DRM'd Mobi Library. The rest of us, are happily enjoying reading on our little iPods.

It may be, but they have to make the move. Lots of folks are reading on the iPhone/iTouch.

Shoot Dennis, if that is all it takes, just give me the specs, and I will see what I can do... I won't touch Word and maybe not PDF... but it should be easy enough to write a script that will convert txt and html to pml which then can be piped to DropBook.

http://www.ereader.com/ereader/help/dropbook/pml.htm
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Dennis

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Shoot Dennis, if that is all it takes, just give me the specs, and I will see what I can do... I won't touch Word and maybe not PDF... but it should be easy enough to write a script that will convert txt and html to pml which then can be piped to DropBook.

If you intend to use Python, then what would be great is an epub2pml addition to Calibre. It might be enough to have a Python html2pml which can later be made into a epub2pml, but Calibre's any2epub is becoming too good a resource to ignore if you are doing conversions. The missing pieces at present are the epub2any commands, although in some cases there are 3rd party tools that almost work (e.g. mobigen under Windows and mobigen_linux under Linux for ePub to MOBI).

[kovidgoyal]

All that's needed to add a new output format to calibre (i.e. an any2X tool) is to write a python function that takes a list of sequential input HTML files and convert that into the new output format).

[bill_mchale]

Well, if I get around to writing this script (or scripts), it will probably be in Perl. Been coding Perl for 10 years now, and I expect I can do a lot more with it a lot faster... not because Perl is better than Python.. but it is what I know . Though, Perl is well suited to this sort of task. html2pml would probably be almost trivial...

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Bill

[kovidgoyal]

Well in that case you can still make use of calibre's tools via the commandline to give you automatic conversion from a dozen different formats.

[bill_mchale]

Just thought I would do a quick search.. turns out someone has already done a basic html2pml in python.. can be found here http://www.shuningbian.net/2007/12/html2pml.php

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Bill

[kovidgoyal]

Cool if someone is willing to add support for links and multiple HTML files, I'll be happy to integrate it into calibre. Though for complete coverage you'd need to handle CSS and non ascii characters as well. That would be hard.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Just thought I would do a quick search.. turns out someone has already done a basic html2pml in python.. can be found here http://www.shuningbian.net/2007/12/html2pml.php

Thanks! Added to the MobileRead wiki.
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Dennis

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

And Amazon uses a different form of DRM than Mobi itself, so purchased Mobi content from elsewhere can't be read on the Kindle. I've no doubt Mobi is thrilled about that move...

It doesn't - it just uses a different DRM server. The actual DRM is the same.