Tablets won

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The overall market does not read... except maybe very occasionally.

Not that Katsunami is a particular offender, but allow me to use that as the as the last straw:
[rant]
Oh please, can we get past that elitist nonsense. Amazon became a billion dollar megaforce by SELLING BOOKS TO THE MASS MARKET.
B&N opened huge superstores all over the country by SELLING BOOKS TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
People read, guys. Lots and lots of people read.
Find something else to act smugly superior about.
Spending MOST of your free time reading is not inherently superior to those who read more occasionally and also do other things in their off hours, like fight fires, drive race cars, build houses with Jimmy Carter, listen to music, serve in the National Guard, ski, or go out on dates.
[/rant]
Thank you.
ApK

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by ApK

I've not made a study of it, but my personal observation of USB and HDMI cables I encounter seems to suggest that cables in the $5-$15 range have sturdier materials, better stress relief, and better solder joints then <$5 bulk cables like those that come with a lot of gear, and I'd need to see a lot of data to convince me that that wouldn't make a difference in reliability.

That's certainly true - the super-cheapo cables are usually less physically robust than reasonably priced ones, but if well treated I found they generally worked just as well.

My key point really is that the usual case is either it works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't it's obvious. The so-called purist's view that a better cable will improve subtle aspects of the picture or sound doesn't hold water. *That's* the fundamental difference between the analogue and digital cases - with analogue, the purist's view is more plausible (though even in the analogue world there's an awful lot of complete pseudo-scientific guff spouted by "audiophiles").

In any case, I hope we can all agree that if you're spending significant money on a digital cable you're wasting your money!

What were we talking about, again?

I've forgotten, but I've enjoyed this bit!

/JB

[ApK]

Originally Posted by jbjb

My key point really is that the usual case is either it works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't it's obvious.

Usually, but loose connections, and excessive noise introduced through bad shielding or other bad design can also cause far less obvious intermittent problems and unwanted artifacts.

On everything else, I agree.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Most young people I know don't even read. I don't consider reading the news or forums on the internet reading.

The salient part was "of those who read". Even counting that eInk devices are dedicated readers....of those who read....more read on tablets. According to the article.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by ApK

Usually, but loose connections, and excessive noise introduced through bad shielding or other bad design can also cause far less obvious intermittent problems and unwanted artifacts.

Unwanted artefacts, certainly, but in my experience they are obviously "digital" if you know what I mean. The analogue-ish issues that people often attribute to digital errors just don't happen.

The nature of the artefacts depends, for example, on whether or not the signal with the bit errors is compressed. For something like uncompressed video over HDMI, errors usually manifest themselves as errored individual pixels (or tight groups of pixels in the case of errors in a chroma word of a chroma-downsampled signal). If you're getting a lot of these, you'll maybe see a sparkling of incorrect pixels. The idea that it'll cause a loss of colour richness or whatever analogue-ish effect doesn't happen. Similarly with uncompressed audio.

If the signal is compressed, then all sorts of weirdness can happen, but in my experience they are all obviously "digital" artefacts.

/JB

[ApK]

Originally Posted by jbjb

in my experience they are all obviously "digital" artefacts.

/JB

I agree (with video certainly, though it's sometimes hard for me to tell a digital audio dropout from an analog one...).
And the "timbre of the violins" thing earlier, I was really thinking more about issues with DACs, not cables.

[DiapDealer]

So why, again, does any of this matter?
Consumers will have a choice between eink or lcd; single- vs multi-purpose, for the forseeable future. "Winning" isn't all that relevant when "losing" bears very little (if any) consequence for the consumer who prefers the "loser."

For reference; I read solely on an LCD 7" tablet. Have for about a year now. So while it's still a safe bet that the hardest hard-core readers still prefer eink, we're quickly approaching a time where that particular delineation can be safely thrown out the window (if we're not there already). People will read on what they want to read on... whether they're casual readers or hardcore bookworms.

Which brings me back 'round to my point: nobody's going to be forced into reading on a device they don't prefer for a long, long (if ever) time. So what is all this hoo-hah about tablets "winning" something? If it's just a popularity contest, then yes... hell yes... tablets won. Whoopie!! Congratulations Tablets! World's Best Cup of Coffee! You did it! Can we move on now?

[charmian]

I think people can argue a lot about e-ink vs. LCD, but to me the more interesting question is, what are the consequences of a slowdown/drop in e-ink reader sales in the US for future e-ink reader production and prices?

Amazon, for example, hasn't updated its lower-end model this year, and the prices are around the same as last year. (Did Kobo update their low-end model? And we haven't heard from B&N at this date) What does the drop off in price competition and the companies only competing at the higher end of the market signify?

The fortunes of e-ink readers in general will also be affected by what's going on in other countries. I read an article predicting that countries where e-books are just beginning to take off would have a similar (to the US) increase in e-books. Will that prop up e-ink's sales? Or will people in those countries read on tablets?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So why, again, does any of this matter?

Because this is the internet. Everything on the internet is always true. You must know that.

If there are two opposing posts, they must therefore still both be true, which creates an unending feedback loop, causing huge threads to come into existence

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Can we move on now?

No. I just explained why. This is the internet.
We must find a way to make both sides of the story true first

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by ApK

Not that Katsunami is a particular offender, but allow me to use that as the as the last straw:
[rant]
Oh please, can we get past that elitist nonsense. Amazon became a billion dollar megaforce by SELLING BOOKS TO THE MASS MARKET.
B&N opened huge superstores all over the country by SELLING BOOKS TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
People read, guys. Lots and lots of people read.
Find something else to act smugly superior about.
Spending MOST of your free time reading is not inherently superior to those who read more occasionally and also do other things in their off hours, like fight fires, drive race cares, build houses with Jimmy Carter, listen to music, serve in the National Guard, ski, or go out on dates.
[/rant]
Thank you.
ApK

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So why, again, does any of this matter?
Consumers will have a choice between eink or lcd; single- vs multi-purpose, for the forseeable future. "Winning" isn't all that relevant when "losing" bears very little (if any) consequence for the consumer who prefers the "loser."

For reference; I read solely on an LCD 7" tablet. Have for about a year now. So while it's still a safe bet that the hardest hard-core readers still prefer eink, we're quickly approaching a time where that particular delineation can be safely thrown out the window (if we're not there already). People will read on what they want to read on... whether they're casual readers or hardcore bookworms.

Which brings me back 'round to my point: nobody's going to be forced into reading on a device they don't prefer for a long, long (if ever) time. So what is all this hoo-hah about tablets "winning" something? If it's just a popularity contest, then yes... hell yes... tablets won. Whoopie!! Congratulations Tablets! World's Best Cup of Coffee! You did it! Can we move on now?

THANK YOU! I'm glad the two of you get it! The rest of you debating/doomsday sayers take it to PM. There are plenty of your choice of devices to go around for years to come so pick one and go read/play/surf or whatever you want to do.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by charmian

Amazon, for example, hasn't updated its lower-end model this year...

And why should it?

I'm not that old, but even I remember a time where a manufacturer released a product, and that one would be the current one for 3-5 years. Even *IF* a new product was released, many people just kept the one they had if it still worked.

Now people buy products, only looking forward to the products of next year, next year, next year, next year....

The world is updating itself into smithereens.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by ApK

I agree (with video certainly, though it's sometimes hard for me to tell a digital audio dropout from an analog one...).
And the "timbre of the violins" thing earlier, I was really thinking more about issues with DACs, not cables.

I think we're in agreement!

Your dropout point is a good one - if the signal error takes the form of an interruption that lasts long enough to be viewed as a dropout, then you could get a similar artefact (a short period of silence or blank screen) in the analogue and digital case. I was thinking more of the effects of noise on the signal rather than complete signal dropout.

DACs can certainly cause analogue effects - they are, after all, partly analogue!

/JB

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by ApK

Not that Katsunami is a particular offender, but allow me to use that as the as the last straw:
[rant]
Oh please, can we get past that elitist nonsense. Amazon became a billion dollar megaforce by SELLING BOOKS TO THE MASS MARKET.
B&N opened huge superstores all over the country by SELLING BOOKS TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
People read, guys. Lots and lots of people read.
Find something else to act smugly superior about.
Spending MOST of your free time reading is not inherently superior to those who read more occasionally and also do other things in their off hours, like fight fires, drive race cares, build houses with Jimmy Carter, listen to music, serve in the National Guard, ski, or go out on dates.
[/rant]
Thank you.
ApK

Then maybe I'm in the wrong country.

I know a lot of people, and apart from ONE (1) other, NOBODY reads.

If they need to read something, even a PDF of 10 pages for work, they balk at it as if it is a punishment given for something they've done wrong.

One of the biggest reasons for teenagers to drop all language classes apart from Dutch (which is... uh... obviously still mandatory) is that they need to read 25 books for their final exam, per language. If I remember correctly. In my time, it was actually 40 or somehting. And you've got 3 years to do it.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Then maybe I'm in the wrong country.

I know a lot of people, and apart from ONE (1) other, NOBODY reads.

If they need to read something, even a PDF of 10 pages for work, they balk at it as if it is a punishment given for something they've done wrong.

One of the biggest reasons for teenagers to drop all language classes apart from Dutch (which is... uh... obviously still mandatory) is that they need to read 25 books for their final exam, per language. If I remember correctly. In my time, it was actually 40 or somehting. And you've got 3 years to do it.

I admit I have no idea how well Amazon or B&N do in the Netherlands, but I can only recall knowing decidedly few people who claim to NOT read. One of them, we talked him in to trying a book.

I live in what I think is a fairly typical middle-class NE US suburb, and my son's public elementary school does well with book fairs, library events, and his friends all seem to have favorite book series (Origami Yoda, Diary of Wimpy Kid, Jack Reacher, etc).

ApK

I'm kidding about Jack Reacher.

[Katsunami]

They don't exist in the Netherlands. One must buy either from Germany or the UK.