WHSMith's temporarily shuts down ebook site - Page 6

Yolina · 10-16-2013, 08:04 AM

In short: it's all a complete mess! I do feel sorry for those authors who have done nothing wrong and complied with the guidelines and yet still had their books pulled.

mr ploppy · 10-16-2013, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Nobody's been prosecuted in the UK under the Obscene Publication Act for purely textual material for something like 30 years

What about Lord Horror and Girls Scream Aloud?

HarryT · 10-16-2013, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

What about Lord Horror and Girls Scream Aloud?

Never heard of them, I'm afraid. Perhaps I'm wrong.

pdurrant · 10-16-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

What about Lord Horror and Girls Scream Aloud?

Fascinating cases. Thanks for the reference. Clearly some police and magistrates still want to try to bring cases, so a change in the law would be appropriate.

I note that there has only been one recent conviction under the act. And that was very peculiar. The 'publication' in question was a one-to-one online chat between adults. The accused was a convicted paedophile, who pled guilty at his retrial after the court of appeal ordered it after the case was initially dismissed. IMO it seems to be an abuse of the Act. Not what I would consider publication.

HarryT · 10-16-2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Fascinating cases. Thanks for the reference.

Having looked them up, I see that they are comics - ie visual material. I did say in my previous post that there had been no successful recent prosecutions for purely textual material. Pictures are a different ball-game, so I believe that the point I made was still valid.

pdurrant · 10-16-2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Having looked them up, I see that they are comics - ie visual material. I did say in my previous post that there had been no successful recent prosecutions for purely textual material. Pictures are a different ball-game, so I believe that the point I made was still valid.

The Lord Horror book that was prosecuted was a pure text novel. There has also been a graphic novel of the same material, but that was not the publication in question.

The Girls Scream Aloud was also a text publication, although in this case just on the Internet.

And you previous said just "prosecuted", with no qualification as to success or not.

In addition, there was the conviction I mentioned for purely textual material, and that in a one-to-one inline chat.

HarryT · 10-16-2013, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The Lord Horror book that was prosecuted was a pure text novel. There has also been a graphic novel of the same material, but that was not the publication in question.

Ah, thank you. The information I found in Wiki indicated that it was a comic. Thank you for the correction.

Regardless of any of that, though, as I said previously, these stores are not removing material because it's illegal, but because it violates TOS and is bad for business.

AnemicOak · 10-16-2013, 10:19 AM

To Our Readers: Update on Kobo.com

Quote:

We know that many of you have questions about the steps Kobo is taking to address an issue in the UK regarding the availability of specific content at Kobo.com.

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First, we want you to know that we are removing specific content that violates our content policy from our store. Secondly, we are doing a comprehensive review of our catalogue to ensure that the eBooks we offer comply with our content policy. This means that some titles have been temporarily removed from the site in the short-term, and most should be back in within the week or two. Third we are reviewing our procedures to continuously improve how we onboard new content.

taming · 10-16-2013, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Regardless of any of that, though, as I said previously, these stores are not removing material because it's illegal, but because it violates TOS and is bad for business.

And it is only bad for business when there is a brouhaha like this. Without it, these books are part of the revenue stream and just fine for business.

HarryT · 10-16-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

And it is only bad for business when there is a brouhaha like this. Without it, these books are part of the revenue stream and just fine for business.

It depends on the numbers of people who buy such books compared to the number who are repelled by them. If they drive away more people than they sell to, they're bad for business, brouhaha or no.

Crusader · 10-16-2013, 10:42 AM

I would really like to see the sales numbers of titles like these. My guess is that they don't sell much, if at all, so I can't see how the retailers are made out to be profiteering if the profit would be a negligible percentage of their total income.

HarryT · 10-16-2013, 10:49 AM

I believe that "erotica" is a very good seller, especially to female readers, but what proportion of erotica is the explicit content that's being objected to, who knows?

ProfCrash · 10-16-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusader

Yes, it wasn't as if Amazon were removing the same types of books and it was WH Smith that started it. Oh, and don't blame any of the self-pubbed authors for using atrociously explicit covers and not tagging their books correctly or willfully putting them into categories where they definitely don't belong. Kobo is the only guilty party here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Hey, at least now Kobo has their own haters club, just like Amazon and Apple and Microsoft.
They rank with the big boys!

Amazon has been hammered for taking down a variety of different titles due to their erotic nature. Some of those were in line with the "showing people how to rape a child" theme, some were homosexual in nature, and others were hard core erotica. I don't remember any of them coming up in regular searches but things that were found by puritanical individuals who simply don't like erotica or homosexuality.

I don't think anyone has a problem with removing how to manuals for any type of rape, child or adult. Pornographic images of kids and the like are not ok. But that crossed into the Manga debate where there is an entire line of books that some deem wrong and others deem to be fine because the characters are legal age but dressed to look like kids.

Long and the short of it, Amazon has dealt with this a ton of times and has been pulverized on this site for taking down all but the worst case books. Kobo has gotten off really, really light based on what I am reading here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Just as a note--I follow a few writer forums and Amazon has been quietly removing books of a certain type for at least two months. The legality of the material puts the material in question as well as the marketing methods used (not categorizing the books correctly and they end up showing in Children's, YA and so on. Some of the covers alone should not be displayed in these areas.)

There are laws about explicit covers being in places where children can see them, which is one of the reasons certain material is kept behind counters in stores.

It is rumored that Amazon is employing some sort of scanning program to scan for illegal or marginal material and pulling such books. By marginal, there are lots of techniques employed to get around rules, but the intent may in fact be to sell material that is illegal.

I hate this topic, I really do. There is some bad stuff out there hiding behind "erotica" that should have never been allowed.

Yes, Amazon removes stuff. I don't think it is rumored, it has been discussed whenever it has been announced by an author whose work was pulled. And then people pull out bats and iron bars and scream about Amazon being evil and censorship and how Amazon is caving to the Puritans and call for a boycott of Amazon. I believe Amazon's search engine does a good job of preventing people from randomly coming across a title that falls into the erotica lable and I have a feeling that Amazon learned a long time ago to be careful when it accepts an independent book into the store.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I believe that "erotica" is a very good seller, especially to female readers, but what proportion of erotica is the explicit content that's being objected to, who knows?

I thought that there were studies that show that Erotica and Romance were two of the best sellers for e-readers. I know romance is huge. The Erotica that I have read is really tame (even looking into the suggestions that folks here have made). Anyone interested in erotica is better off looking at Literotica on the web then most of the books that I have seen.

HarryT · 10-16-2013, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I thought that there were studies that show that Erotica and Romance were two of the best sellers for e-readers. I know romance is huge.

Yes, I believe that is indeed the case. Most of it is both written and read by women.

ProfCrash · 10-16-2013, 12:04 PM

Actually, a fair amount is written by men using pen names. I can't remember the study that I read that said that but I remember chuckling.

It makes sense, two genres that people are going to be more hesitant to read in public are huge as e-books. People can disguise what they are reading more easily.

10-16-2013, 08:04 AM	#76
Yolina Wizard Posts: 1,179 Karma: 11573197 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: London, UK Device: Voyage	In short: it's all a complete mess! I do feel sorry for those authors who have done nothing wrong and complied with the guidelines and yet still had their books pulled. Last edited by Yolina; 10-16-2013 at 08:06 AM.

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10-16-2013, 10:42 AM	#86
Crusader Space Cadet Posts: 1,180 Karma: 4030536 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Africa Device: Sony PRS-T1, Cybook Opus, Kobo Glo	I would really like to see the sales numbers of titles like these. My guess is that they don't sell much, if at all, so I can't see how the retailers are made out to be profiteering if the profit would be a negligible percentage of their total income.

10-16-2013, 10:49 AM	#87
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,548 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I believe that "erotica" is a very good seller, especially to female readers, but what proportion of erotica is the explicit content that's being objected to, who knows?

10-16-2013, 12:04 PM	#90
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Actually, a fair amount is written by men using pen names. I can't remember the study that I read that said that but I remember chuckling. It makes sense, two genres that people are going to be more hesitant to read in public are huge as e-books. People can disguise what they are reading more easily.