Font embedding frustration

[theducks]

Psymon

Sometimes a image (on a page) is the only reasonable solution to compatibility problems.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That is not true. I do have ADE 2.0 installed here under Windows 7 and it is associated with .acsm files and ePub do open with ADE 2.0 when I download the .acsm files. I still have ADE 1.7 installed. I had ADE 1.7 installed when I installed ADE 2.0.

well it would not work for me - , and ade would not show up on list of installed programs when i tried to manually associate it. Google suggested I was not alone in this - are you using 64 bit windows ?

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by theducks

Sometimes a image (on a page) is the only reasonable solution to compatibility problems.

I'm still debating what to do about that "appendix" to this epub (which is what that late-Middle English text is -- it's not the main text), and I suppose I could do two versions, i.e. one with that "olde" text with the embedded fonts just for ibooks, and another with images of those pages for other platforms. Or, of course, I could just bite the bullet and trash the fonty version and just do it with images. I'm not sure yet...

In any case, though, with regard to the main text, I've discovered another font issue -- and also a full-page image issue -- and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong! I hope someone can help.

I've included here the opening pages of the main/whole epub (minus the table of contents, which prevented it from validating because of its references to non-existing pages). On the iPad, in iBooks, the fonts embed just fine -- no problems! But if I open it in Marvin then the embedded fonts don't show up. My understanding is that Marvin can display embedded fonts, so why aren't mine showing up?

ALSO, on another note, when I view this in iBooks in two-page landscape orientation, everything comes out just fine, but if I rotate into portrait orientation I end up with an extra blank page after every single full-page image.

I've scoured the forums here -- and searched elsewhere on the 'net, too -- and I've tried to incorporate any/all suggestions that people have made (like changing the dimensions to 99% instead of 100%), but I just can't figure out why on earth I'm getting those extra blank pages (only in portrait orientation).

Can anyone help? Thanks sooooo much, once again!

Ron

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Psymon

I'm still debating what to do about that "appendix" to this epub (which is what that late-Middle English text is -- it's not the main text), and I suppose I could do two versions, i.e. one with that "olde" text with the embedded fonts just for ibooks, and another with images of those pages for other platforms. Or, of course, I could just bite the bullet and trash the fonty version and just do it with images. I'm not sure yet...

In any case, though, with regard to the main text, I've discovered another font issue -- and also a full-page image issue -- and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong! I hope someone can help.

I've included here the opening pages of the main/whole epub (minus the table of contents, which prevented it from validating because of its references to non-existing pages). On the iPad, in iBooks, the fonts embed just fine -- no problems! But if I open it in Marvin then the embedded fonts don't show up. My understanding is that Marvin can display embedded fonts, so why aren't mine showing up?

ALSO, on another note, when I view this in iBooks in two-page landscape orientation, everything comes out just fine, but if I rotate into portrait orientation I end up with an extra blank page after every single full-page image.

I've scoured the forums here -- and searched elsewhere on the 'net, too -- and I've tried to incorporate any/all suggestions that people have made (like changing the dimensions to 99% instead of 100%), but I just can't figure out why on earth I'm getting those extra blank pages (only in portrait orientation).

Can anyone help? Thanks sooooo much, once again!

Ron

I don't see what is wrong.

The book crashes on my PEz (MRSDK)
Moon+ does not seem to allow 'Publisher' fonts (seriously NOT a expert user)
ADE 1.7 does not center the Rose

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by theducks

I don't see what is wrong.

The book crashes on my PEz (MRSDK)
Moon+ does not seem to allow 'Publisher' fonts (seriously NOT a expert user)
ADE 1.7 does not center the Rose

I don't know what "PEz (MRSDK)" or "Moon+" are, and despite being very much interested in typography for nearly going on 4 decades now, I don't know what you mean by "publisher" fonts. The font I'm embedding is just a freeware font I downloaded, and which embeds just fine in iBooks, and also in ADE 2.0, and the rose centers just fine for me, too (and everything else looks fine in ADE).

The issues in that file that I uploaded -- at least, that I'm aware of -- are (a) the embedded font doesn't display in Marvin on the iPad (although it does just fine in iBooks), and (b) in portrait mode in iBooks there's an extra blank page after every single full-page image, although everything's okay in landscape.

As I said, I've scoured the forums here, and elsewhere on the 'net, and I have no idea what I've done wrong -- if there's a silly mistake in my code somewhere, it must be one of those times when the "obvious" is right in front of your face but you just don't see it. :/

I'd be soooo appreciative if anyone could take a look at the file I uploaded in my previous message and possibly, hopefully, point out what I'm doing wrong?

Ron

[Toxaris]

I seem to recall I mentioned this before, but have you checked the OS/2 version of the embedded font? It must be 3 or lower. If it is not, it will not work on a lot of readers. On the newer readers it will probably work.
You cannot check this with ADE 2.0, but you can with 1.7. To test if embedded fonts work, ADE 1.7 is a better testcase.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Psymon

I don't know what "PEz (MRSDK)" or "Moon+" are, and despite being very much interested in typography for nearly going on 4 decades now, I don't know what you mean by "publisher" fonts. The font I'm embedding is just a freeware font I downloaded, and which embeds just fine in iBooks, and also in ADE 2.0, and the rose centers just fine for me, too (and everything else looks fine in ADE).

By "publisher fonts" he means exactly what it sounds like--the fonts that you, the publisher, include in the book. On Nook, you have to specifically make a choice to "enable" or display Publisher fonts, for the font you've chosen to display, and on the newer NookHD's, you have a better than 90% chance that it won't display anyway--the NookHD Operating System seems to override embedded fonts. We've had several books we've had to remake that, for whatever reason, simply would not display correct embedded, proper type fonts. Absolutely infuriating. Not quite as arrogant as how they override your own CSS with theirs, unless you expressly tell them not to, during the publication; but still..

With regard to the PEZ and Moon, he's talking about the underlying software (Software Developer's Kit) and a reading app, respectively.

The issues in that file that I uploaded -- at least, that I'm aware of -- are (a) the embedded font doesn't display in Marvin on the iPad (although it does just fine in iBooks), and (b) in portrait mode in iBooks there's an extra blank page after every single full-page image, although everything's okay in landscape.

You probably embedded the images at 100%, in your CSS, for height. That'll create an extra blank page every time. Not saying that's absolutely it, but...I don't use Marvin, so I can't speak to that. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Marvin, like many other reading apps, allows the user to override the fonts at will, OR, simply does not display your blackletter font. Sorry--really don't know on that one.

As I said, I've scoured the forums here, and elsewhere on the 'net, and I have no idea what I've done wrong -- if there's a silly mistake in my code somewhere, it must be one of those times when the "obvious" is right in front of your face but you just don't see it. :/

I'd be soooo appreciative if anyone could take a look at the file I uploaded in my previous message and possibly, hopefully, point out what I'm doing wrong?

Ron

I'm sure someone here who does use Marvin can assist.

Hitch

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

I seem to recall I mentioned this before, but have you checked the OS/2 version of the embedded font? It must be 3 or lower.

Pardon my stupidity, but I have no idea what that means! When I hear (or read) "OS/2", I presume you're referring to a Mac OS? I'm on PC.

I don't know what it is that I'm supposed to be checking here, or how to go about checking it (whatever it is).

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by Hitch

for the font you've chosen to display, and on the newer NookHD's, you have a better than 90% chance that it won't display anyway--the NookHD Operating System seems to override embedded fonts. We've had several books we've had to remake that, for whatever reason, simply would not display correct embedded, proper type fonts. Absolutely infuriating.

I'm not sure what to make of that -- so as a professional at this, do you folks just not embed fonts at all? Is there not any way to embed fonts so that "everyone" will see them okay? If not, then geez... I might as well go back to my original design where I didn't use any embedded fonts.

If this is indeed the case -- that it's best to just not embed fonts at all -- then I know this is probably a stretch, but are there certain fonts that are common to ALL ereaders?

Originally Posted by Hitch

You probably embedded the images at 100%, in your CSS, for height. That'll create an extra blank page every time.

No, as I mentioned I set both the height/width at 99%. Here, for example, this is my code for my "frontispiece" page (the first page after the cover, and before the title page), which is basically how I did up all my full-page images (all as single files, like this), and I did it this way based on what I've picked up here in these forums as well as elsewhere on the 'net...

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
  "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
  <title>A Letter To My Imaginary Friend</title>
  <meta content="Copyright Ron Koster/Psymon" http-equiv="copyright" />
  <link href="../Styles/letter.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
  
<style type="text/css">
@page { margin: 0.000000pt; padding: 0.000000pt; }
</style>
</head>

<body>
  <div class="svg_outer">
    <div class="svg_inner">
      <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" height="99%" preserveAspectRatio="xMidYMid meet" version="1.1" viewBox="0 0 592 900" width="99%" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink">
        <image height="900" width="592" xlink:href="../Images/Frontispiece.jpg"></image>
      </svg>
    </div>
  </div>
</body>
</html>

...and the relevant classes in my CSS file are...

.svg_outer {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 0;
margin-left: 0;
margin-right: 0;
margin-top: 0;
padding-bottom: 0;
padding-left: 0;
padding-right: 0;
padding-top: 0;
text-align: left;
}

.svg_inner {
display: block;
text-align: center;
}

If it matters, the "Frontispiece.jpg" image is, in fact, 1200x1800 in size, but as far as I know the above is how the code should be done up???

Originally Posted by Hitch

I'd guess that Marvin, like many other reading apps, allows the user to override the fonts at will, OR, simply does not display your blackletter font.

No, the example that I loaded up earlier today is totally different from that "olde"-style version -- it's modern English, with regular text (i.e. Georgia as my specified base font, plus an embedded font for the headings only), so it SHOULD display just fine... at least as far as the text goes.

I'm so frustrated...

Ron

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

You probably embedded the images at 100%, in your CSS, for height. That'll create an extra blank page every time. Not saying that's absolutely it, but...I don't use Marvin, so I can't speak to that. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Marvin, like many other reading apps, allows the user to override the fonts at will, OR, simply does not display your blackletter font. Sorry--really don't know on that one.

To display embedded fonts in Marvin, you have to go to the Aa menu and set publisher's format on and then embedded fonts will display.

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

To display embedded fonts in Marvin, you have to go to the Aa menu and set publisher's format on and then embedded fonts will display.

Ah, okay -- funny, I didn't notice that at all in there (although I did look around elsewhere for an option like that).

That seems like an odd -- indeed, backwards -- way for them to go about it, though. Why wouldn't Marvin make the publisher's fonts/formatting the default, rather than automatically override them? Surely a lot of people won't think of changing that, and then a LOT of books will end up looking like crap because of their doing it that way.

I can't see the reasoning for messing with the designer's design (by default) -- am I missing something?

[Psymon]

PS... In Marvin, with it set to "publisher's formatting", ALL my full-page image pages end up with an extra blank page afterwards -- but in the reverse way from iBooks! In iBooks, it only happens in portrait mode, but looks fine in landscape, whereas in Marvin it's the opposite.

Weird...

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Psymon

PS... In Marvin, with it set to "publisher's formatting", ALL my full-page image pages end up with an extra blank page afterwards -- but in the reverse way from iBooks! In iBooks, it only happens in portrait mode, but looks fine in landscape, whereas in Marvin it's the opposite.

Weird...

Welcome to the world of 'We know best' reader software
IMHO what I saw of your book (in Sigil where it seemed to behave as intended), was a very nice look

I tend to prefer the Publisher's (supplied) view. All I do is hit the font size ^ button for a font size that is pretty similar to a common paperback (the default is about 75%).

[Psymon]

Originally Posted by theducks

Welcome to the world of 'We know best' reader software
IMHO what I saw of your book (in Sigil where it seemed to behave as intended), was a very nice look

Thanks so much! And hey, at least it looks nice and displays correctly in Sigil! Ha ha...

Originally Posted by theducks

I tend to prefer the Publisher's (supplied) view. All I do is hit the font size ^ button for a font size that is pretty similar to a common paperback (the default is about 75%).

Yeah, I can't imagine WANTING to not see things the way the publisher designed it -- for me, as a designer (print, graphic, web, and now moving toward epublishing) as well as a life-long bibliophile and typophile, half of my enjoyment of books isn't just what the text "says", but the whole presentation of it.

I can only assume, though, that many people -- perhaps even most people -- who are just "average" users/readers might not even be aware of that option (to prefer the publisher's formatting), or what it implies. By making it not the default in Marvin, they might think that it's something "bad".

I don't know -- I'm just assuming, of course -- but I could certainly see a lot of older folks (especially) or anyone else who isn't very computer-savvy simply not even giving it a thought. :/

[theducks]

I did find the setting in Moon +
Your (heading) font and rose rendered properly