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Old 10-09-2013, 02:56 PM   #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
On the book menu, there is an menu entry "Table of Contents". When that is selected, a window is shown that says "Table of Contents" at the top. This is where I would like the page numbers. I assume this is what you are referring to as "TOC displayed by parsing the toc.ncx file"
Part of the epub2 standard is a toc file called toc.ncx. This file uses navmap and navpoint tags to define entries in the table of contents. This is the file used by table of contents popup on Kobo's ereaders.

Code:
 <docTitle>
    <text>The Honor of the Queen</text>
  </docTitle>
  <navMap>
    <navPoint id="6302f89b-4dd6-4683-afc1-501942c14eab" playOrder="1">
      <navLabel>
        <text>CHAPTER ONE</text>
      </navLabel>
      <content src="Text/0743435729__p__split_001.htm"/>
    </navPoint>
    <navPoint id="f21a31ad-6d43-4003-9ca7-f2958fccef50" playOrder="2">
      <navLabel>
        <text>CHAPTER TWO</text>
      </navLabel>
      <content src="Text/0743435729__p__split_002.htm"/>
    </navPoint>
    <navPoint id="8fa502c6-449e-4c47-a4b0-75692d6dced7" playOrder="3">
      <navLabel>
        <text>CHAPTER THREE</text>
      </navLabel>
      <content src="Text/0743435729__p__split_003.htm"/>
    </navPoint>
    <navPoint id="99942f95-e4cc-4015-acfe-889fbf2bd2bf" playOrder="4">
      <navLabel>
        <text>CHAPTER FOUR</text>
      </navLabel>
      <content src="Text/0743435729__p__split_004.htm"/>
    </navPoint>
    <navPoint id="24f63042-669c-4745-a90a-b5815727f66f" playOrder="5">
      <navLabel>
        <text>CHAPTER FIVE</text>
      </navLabel>
      <content src="Text/0743435729__p__split_005.htm"/>
    </navPoint>
To make things more fun, Epub3 deprecates the toc.ncx file and goes with a xhtml file using nav tags. The toc nav tag with a meaning similar to the old navmap tag is the only one I've seen used so far but there is a page-list nav element which can contain page numbers derived from a printed book which is again somewhat similar to the pagelist tag but with some effort to make it useful for more than causing confusion.

Regards,
David
Last edited by DNSB; 10-13-2013 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Yet another typo that crept in has been squished...
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:01 PM   #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
David, you do stuff with Calibre? Are you thinking of making changes for Calibre? My comments weren't made with regards to Calibre, but with regards to the kobo devices.
No, I don't do much with Calibre other than to use it to catalog my ebooks and transfer them to my ereader collection. If you want changes to Calibre, you can check out the source code via github or get involved in the Calibre community.

Most of what I learned about ebooks comes from editing them with various programs ranging from Adobe's InDesign, Sigil, Atlantis Word Processor (using it's export to epub) plus a couple of other forgettable programs. For the most part, I found that Sigil offered me the best mix of features (regex rules!) and pricing.

Regards,
David
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:10 AM   #828
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David, it looks like you are looking for a solution to a problem I don't necessarily care about at this time. I'll quote my desire from a previous post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
On the book menu, there is an menu entry "Table of Contents". When that is selected, a window is shown that says "Table of Contents" at the top. This is where I would like the page numbers. I assume this is what you are referring to as "TOC displayed by parsing the toc.ncx file"
And to clarify, I want the device to display page numbers in the window, not necessarily modifing the toc.ncx. Also, my point of reference is the Kobo Glo, Touch, or Aura HD (although I think many ereaders display their TOC in a similar window).

As an aside, I thought there was some way to reference "pbook pages" in an epub (I thought the Nook was implementing this, or am I thinking of the Kindle)?

Cheers,
John
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:25 AM   #829
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John,

The problem is that what you want can't be done without rendering the complete book. Or at least not for all books.

The other David specified how page numbers are calculated for epubs. It is also described in https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Adob...s#Page_numbers.

All that means it is easy to calculate a page number for the start of each file in the epub. And if each file represents a chapter, then it is easy to calculate the page number.

But, if the chapters are not at the file breaks, you need to render all files to work out which page the chapters are on. That is a lot more work. Of course it is possible, but it could take a long time for a big book.

And for what it is worth, I would say that at least 25% of my books are of the latter type.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:16 AM   #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
John,

The problem is that what you want can't be done without rendering the complete book. Or at least not for all books.

The other David specified how page numbers are calculated for epubs. It is also described in https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Adob...s#Page_numbers.

All that means it is easy to calculate a page number for the start of each file in the epub. And if each file represents a chapter, then it is easy to calculate the page number.

But, if the chapters are not at the file breaks, you need to render all files to work out which page the chapters are on. That is a lot more work. Of course it is possible, but it could take a long time for a big book.

And for what it is worth, I would say that at least 25% of my books are of the latter type.
You still haven't convinced me.

Your "it might take a long time in some cases" is my "I would rather have page numbers and wait than not have them at all.". (i do not, however, want the displaying of the TOC to be delayed; display the TOC first, and than calculate and display the page numbers)
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:36 AM   #831
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Interesting...

I just loaded a book on my "old" Nook ST, and it shows page numbers in the table of contents.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:52 AM   #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
Interesting...

I just loaded a book on my "old" Nook ST, and it shows page numbers in the table of contents.
I had an old ereader that showed page numbers in the table of contents as well. They changed if I changed the font, font size, line spacing, margins, etc. so probably better to refer to them as screen numbers than page numbers. The displayed numbers had no relation to the same publication in print form or on a different ereader.

Page numbers should be relegated to a collection of relics of the past along with leather binding, gilt edged pages and Gauffered edges.

Regards,
David
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:22 AM   #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
I had an old ereader that showed page numbers in the table of contents as well. They changed if I changed the font, font size, line spacing, margins, etc. so probably better to refer to them as screen numbers than page numbers.
That sounds nice.

On the Nook, you can change the font, margins ... (I stopped there), and the page numbers stayed the same.

Quote:
... The displayed numbers had no relation to the same publication in print form or on a different ereader.
Different editions and hardcover/paperback page number differences must drive you crazy.[/quote]
I'll think I'll always like "page" numbers. I'm not a fan of locations and %. Time is nice, but I think page numbers work the best for me.

Cheers,
John

P.S. I would still appreciate a response to this question. I have a feeling I may be mis-remembering this:

Quote:
As an aside, I thought there was some way to reference "pbook pages" in an epub (I thought the Nook was implementing this, or am I thinking of the Kindle)?
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:52 AM   #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
I'll think I'll always like "page" numbers. I'm not a fan of locations and %. Time is nice, but I think page numbers work the best for me.
The main reason I use "page" numbers now is working if can finish a chapter before bed or some other interruption. But, I just use the navigation bar to skip to the next chapter and then return.
Quote:

P.S. I would still appreciate a response to this question. I have a feeling I may be mis-remembering this:

Quote:
As an aside, I thought there was some way to reference "pbook pages" in an epub (I thought the Nook was implementing this, or am I thinking of the Kindle)?
Every now and then someone mentions an Adobe page map. I believe this is the way it is achieved. But, I don't think I have seen an epub with one and I have no idea how to create them.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:51 AM   #835
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John F. - can you clarify for me? Do you want this primarily as a way to judge how far through a chapter you are? As in I'm on page 65 and the TOC shows the next chapter starts at page 72?
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:33 AM   #836
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John F. - can you clarify for me? Do you want this primarily as a way to judge how far through a chapter you are? As in I'm on page 65 and the TOC shows the next chapter starts at page 72?
I would rather not. I'm trying a Machiavellian approach to feature requests in hopes of getting some of them implemented.

If you go back several posts I gave some reasons.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:22 PM   #837
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Every now and then someone mentions an Adobe page map. I believe this is the way it is achieved. But, I don't think I have seen an epub with one and I have no idea how to create them.
I've seen a DRM-cracked Penguin book that had empty anchor tags (ie. <a href="page337"/>) that apparently document physical page-breaks. However, there was nothing in the ebook structure that referred to those, so there was no way for an e-reader to use them for anything.

Quote:
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I would rather not. I'm trying a Machiavellian approach to feature requests in hopes of getting some of them implemented.
How does getting your request tossed for lack of clarity count as "Machiavellian"?
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:50 PM   #838
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...
How does getting your request tossed for lack of clarity count as "Machiavellian"?
Since every request gets tossed, I thought a different approach seemed appropriate.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:05 PM   #839
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Since every request gets tossed, I thought a different approach seemed appropriate.
Speaking as a programmer, nothing will get a feature request tossed faster than a lack of clarity. If I don't know what you want, I'm not going to bother trying to guess.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:29 PM   #840
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Speaking as a programmer, nothing will get a feature request tossed faster than a lack of clarity. If I don't know what you want, I'm not going to bother trying to guess.
Speaking as a user, I find it tedious to explain why I want something to only be told "that's not what you really want, trust me".
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