The morality of circumventing geographical restrictions only to buy cheaper ebooks

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

That's the point of the article. A 2k to 5k PER YEAR advances don't do a thing to solve the problem. The one author has years where he makes 70k and years where he makes 7k. And this is after YEARS of publishing traditionally. In the early years he was probably making 2k or nothing.

I'm reading a blog of an author right now who is waiting to see if his current book will be accepted. He has contracts and all the usual bells and whistles, but there's still an acceptance process. The thing has been sitting with his publisher for a couple of months already. He might find out if it's accepted and a pub date in another 6 months. Meanwhile, he has that day job, does some self-publishing, etc. This is not a career for the feint of heart.

To be blunt: for many it is not a career, just a dream.

A dream that often dies of corporate "nurturing".
Small wonder that many newcomers aren't bothering to submit to the ancien regime anymore.

(Georestrictions, mandatory DRM, wars with retailers... The corporate types sure know how to help their... vic... authors...)

[artbatista]

There's no morality involved, except that publishers would like to delude themselves into thinking they are "licensing" a book to me.

I could see that, if "licensing" the book was a fraction of purchasing, but it's not, and I find it morally reprehensible that they attempt to steal from their customers.

All this regional restriction crap is just another facet of their unbridled avarice.

Art

[tompe]

Originally Posted by artbatista

There's no morality involved, except that publishers would like to delude themselves into thinking they are "licensing" a book to me.

I could see that, if "licensing" the book was a fraction of purchasing, but it's not, and I find it morally reprehensible that they attempt to steal from their customers.

All this regional restriction crap is just another facet of their unbridled avarice.

Art

The publisher of course would like to have world rights for the same price. It is the authors that are selling to different publishers in different regions. Put the blame were it belong!

Or did you mean that publishers should be required to pay more than they want and more then they can get back just to get world rights they do not want?

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by tompe

The publisher of course would like to have world rights for the same price. It is the authors that are selling to different publishers in different regions. Put the blame were it belong!

Or did you mean that publishers should be required to pay more than they want and more then they can get back just to get world rights they do not want?

Here is one article among many that says you are wrong.
http://bookbee.net/book-industry-sou...-rort-at-will/

[Redzircon]

Wherever I see much higher prices for the same downloadable items, I have to ask why?

A recent parliamentary enquiry essentially said we were being gouged. Perhaps the booksellers are different to software sellers.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Here is one article among many that says you are wrong.
http://bookbee.net/book-industry-sou...-rort-at-will/

Well, and all other articles I have read say I am right.

How to you parallell import an ebook when you are not allowed to re-sell it? And how can an Australian company (Amazon Australia) buy the book in another geographical region if the book is restricted.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by artbatista

There's no morality involved, except that publishers would like to delude themselves into thinking they are "licensing" a book to me.

They are. They're not selling you the copyright. They're not selling you a physical object - so what else are they doing?

I could see that, if "licensing" the book was a fraction of purchasing, but it's not, and I find it morally reprehensible that they attempt to steal from their customers.

Stealing is taking something you don't own without permission. They're not doing that. They may be charging more than you feel is reasonable, that's fine don't pay.

All this regional restriction crap is just another facet of their unbridled avarice.

I'm not sure avarice applies to companies. As someone else said it's not a moral thing it's business. In a capitalist society we want companies to make as much money as possible. I certainly want the company I work for to do well. I really want the companies my pension fund invests in to do well. If I discovered that they had an opportunity to make more money - legally - but chose not to because they didn't want to be "greedy" I'd be disappointed about that.

Which is not to say that I'm in favour of what the publishers are doing necessarily but it's like blaming a fish for swimming. Trying to make money is what they do.

[melmac]

I got an email from Kobo telling me they missed me please come back! Strange I thought I've purchased lots from you recently then I realised I had purchased those from Kobo US and Kobo UK the email was from Kobo Australia. Do I feel morally bankrupt? not one itty bitty bit. Just my 2c which you can have due to all the money I've saved by shopping globally

[taming]

There seems to be no agency pricing in the Kobo US store anymore. So many terrific books by Canadian authors are not available as ebooks in the US. Eventually some of them seem to get there. In the meantime, having big pricing differences harms the Canadian community of authors, editors, publishers, etc. Nothing magic happened in the Canadian store as a result of the US lawsuit.

I very much want to read Joseph Boyden's new book, The Orenda. It is $16.99 CAD and not available as an ebook in the US. My choice is to borrow it from the library rather than purchase it. Why would I spend that much money on an ebook when I can get 50% off until the end of the month on pretty much any book the US store sells?

[xendula]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

This is not a career for the feint of heart.

Lucky for us that some still chose it. I imagine with a daytime job, new installments in a series would come out much more slowly.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by taming

There seems to be no agency pricing in the Kobo US store anymore. So many terrific books by Canadian authors are not available as ebooks in the US. Eventually some of them seem to get there. In the meantime, having big pricing differences harms the Canadian community of authors, editors, publishers, etc. Nothing magic happened in the Canadian store as a result of the US lawsuit.

I very much want to read Joseph Boyden's new book, The Orenda. It is $16.99 CAD and not available as an ebook in the US. My choice is to borrow it from the library rather than purchase it. Why would I spend that much money on an ebook when I can get 50% off until the end of the month on pretty much any book the US store sells?

Is that because of a coupon or because the price is that much different? And if it's a coupon, is it any book they sell or how does it work? If you don't mind me asking...that could be a lot of info to supply!

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by latepaul

I'm not sure avarice applies to companies. As someone else said it's not a moral thing it's business. In a capitalist society we want companies to make as much money as possible. I certainly want the company I work for to do well. I really want the companies my pension fund invests in to do well. If I discovered that they had an opportunity to make more money - legally - but chose not to because they didn't want to be "greedy" I'd be disappointed about that.

I don't agree. I think we want companies to be reasonable about their profits. Case in point was South Africa. Many companies decided (under pressure, true) to forgo profits from investing in South Africa in the interest of ending apartheid. Those who refused generally met with public disapproval and, in some cases, boycotts. Stockholders might not care if companies are ethical or not in pursuit of profits but I think the public as a whole does.

[pdurrant]

I've just had this dilemma for the current Book Club book. It's Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses. In both the US and the UK it's published by Random House.

At Kobo UK it's £6.49 and the 50% off coupon won't work.
At Kobo US it's $11.99 but the 50% coupon does work. Add in (say) Colorado taxes, and it's $6.45 net, which works out to £4.20.

So, what should I do?
The author is the same, the retailer is the same, the publisher is the same.
The author is a British Indian living in the US. The retailer is Canadian. The publisher is global.
But I save £2.29 if I buy at the US store. In other words, buying from the UK store would be just over 50% more expensive.

Does anyone really think the author, retailer or publisher would think that it was just as wrong for me to pirate the ebook?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I've just had this dilemma for the current Book Club book. It's Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses. In both the US and the UK it's published by Random House.

At Kobo UK it's £6.49 and the 50% off coupon won't work.
At Kobo US it's $11.99 but the 50% coupon does work. Add in (say) Colorado taxes, and it's $6.45 net, which works out to £4.20.

So, what should I do?

Kobo US.

What does it matter? If I can get stuff cheaper at Amazon.de I buy there. If it's cheaper at Amazon.co.uk, I get it there. If I want an e-book, I look into the various stores and get it at the cheapest one. (And Amazon must be WAY cheaper than the cheapest EPUB store, as I don't want AZW3 or MOBI books as a source format if I can help it.)

In this case, Kobo UK and US are just competing; no matter it's the same company in the end. Why should you feel obliged to pay more?

The author is the same, the retailer is the same, the publisher is the same.
But I save £2.29 if I buy at the US store. In other words, buying from the UK store would be just over 50% more expensive.

Does anyone really think the author, retailer or publisher would think that it was just as wrong for me to pirate the ebook?

I don't know, but if you can legally get the same product at two different places, one being cheaper than the other, then you would be stupid to pay more, EXCEPT if something else may skew the equation (service, warranty terms, delivery costs...); but those points are mostly moot voor e-books.

Get it at Kobo US. I would.

[Istvan diVega]

Quite frankly I feel that anybody who thinks there's any moral downside to this is stuck in a pre-internet, pre-globalisation world and needs to at least dip their toes in the current millennium asap.