Renting textbooks from Amazon? Do not dare to cross state borders

doctorow · 08-17-2013, 05:47 AM

Not quite sure what to think of this. If you strictly follow Amazon's terms of use for textbook rentals, you're not allowed to cross state borders with your rented books.

Under "Rentals by Warehouse Deals, Inc.", it states

Quote:

You may not move the textbook out of the state to which it was originally shipped. If you wish to move the textbook out of that state, you must first purchase the textbook. You can purchase the textbook by going to Your Textbook Rentals to view your rental library. Select the textbook you wish to purchase and then proceed through the checkout process. You may also contact us to purchase the textbook. When you purchase the textbook, we will charge you the buyout price of the textbook, and the textbook will be yours to keep.

What if you don't follow their terms?

Quote:

If we determine that at any time during the rental period you have moved a textbook rented from Warehouse Deals, Inc. out of the state to which it was originally shipped, we may in our sole discretion charge you the buyout price of the textbook and transfer title to the textbook to you, retroactive to the date you moved the textbook out of that state. In such case, the textbook will be yours to keep.

Why all this? Most likely it's related to Amazon's attempt to evade certain state sale taxes.

Inside Higher Ed has the full story.

image U.S. Customs and Border Protection/Flickr

pdurrant · 08-18-2013, 05:38 AM

Wow. Astonishing.

Sil_liS · 08-18-2013, 06:42 AM

Maybe this is something like the rule that you are not allowed to take library books across country borders.

HansTWN · 08-18-2013, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorow

Not quite sure what to think of this. If you strictly follow Amazon's terms of use for textbook rentals, you're not allowed to cross state borders with your rented books.

Under "Rentals by Warehouse Deals, Inc.", it states

What if you don't follow their terms?

Why all this? Most likely it's related to Amazon's attempt to evade certain state sale taxes.

Inside Higher Ed has the full story.

image U.S. Customs and Border Protection/Flickr

Well, it makes sense. Amazon has to be on their toes. Actually they are not evading state sales taxes, their customers are. I think the rule is that consumers are supposed to declare internet purchases and voluntarily pay sales taxes on them. (Who does that?) Amazon just avoids the trouble of collecting them -- and obviously enables its customers to evade the taxes.

vivaldirules · 08-18-2013, 07:28 AM

Geographical Restrictions

Coming to a county/parrish/city/district/precinct/subdivision/block near you!

SteveEisenberg · 08-18-2013, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Maybe this is something like the rule that you are not allowed to take library books across country borders.

Do you have a link to this?

What about US public library members, living abroad, who borrow via Overdrive? They would be instant rule-breakers.

From the OP Inside Higher Ed Link:

Quote:

The bottom line is that students should read the fine print and understand all of the terms and conditions before renting a book from any seller, Hershman said.

OK, but then you have to use common sense. Amazon surely gets books returned with out of state postmarks all the time and does nothing. If they actually enforced the out of state rule, there would be great negative publicity, so I am sure they do not. One needs to realize which rules and laws are seriously intended.

Sil_liS · 08-18-2013, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Do you have a link to this?

What about US public library members, living abroad, who borrow via Overdrive? They would be instant rule-breakers.

I don't know if this is valid for digital books as well. I've made the habit of reading the terms and conditions that I'm agreeing to, and as a foreign student this was standing out. I don't have a link.

Sregener · 08-18-2013, 08:06 AM

Renting has always come with restrictions that ownership does not, but this does seem a little... strange.

Jessica Lares · 08-18-2013, 08:31 AM

I think what they're trying to say is that you need to order your books right when you get to campus for the semester, and then you need to return them right after your exams.

Basically they're trying to limit the damage and loss of their goods when they're sitting on the floor for a month before you go back, in the car, and as non carry-on luggage on buses and planes.

Greg Anos · 08-18-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

Geographical Restrictions

Coming to a county/parrish/city/district/precinct/subdivision/block near you!

You left out room....

wizwor · 08-18-2013, 09:35 AM

There are probably obscure laws designed to ensure schools can overcharge for texts. My kid gets a book list just a few days before classes start. Some of the books are 'special editions' or come with software codes that cost as much as the book if purchased separately. No doubt in my mind the intent is to make local purchase more appealing. Big Education: Overcharging and Undereducating.

teh603 · 08-18-2013, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizwor

There are probably obscure laws designed to ensure schools can overcharge for texts. My kid gets a book list just a few days before classes start. Some of the books are 'special editions' or come with software codes that cost as much as the book if purchased separately. No doubt in my mind the intent is to make local purchase more appealing. Big Education: Overcharging and Undereducating.

Special editions which have been tweaked for each state's special version of the course. Science textbooks that downplay Darwin and evolution and completely skip human reproduction, history textbooks that downplay Jefferson, literature anthologies that deny postmodernism, all that kind of academic censorship that we all hate to love.

Andrew H. · 08-18-2013, 02:51 PM

I have a hard time seeing how this is connected to the sales tax issue at all - and the only person quoted in the article, from the "Campus Computing Project" - does not seem to be anyone with any actual expertise in the matter.

If I rent a car in one state and drive it to another state, I don't have have to pay taxes on it in the other state.

If I rent a TV in one state and take it to another state, I don't have to pay sales tax on it in the other state.

So I can't see why it would be any different for textbooks, nor can I see why Amazon, even if they were responsible for collecting taxes, as they are in some states, would be responsible for collecting taxes in states where the transaction did not occur simply because the renter took the rented item across state lines.

But I'm not sure what the purpose of the rule would be, although I suspect that it comes from the publishers and not from Amazon directly, since I don't think that Amazon has any interest in making things difficult for their customers.

wizwor · 08-18-2013, 02:51 PM

Well, maybe, but I can't see java offending anyone. My kid is a business major, so ethics and ideologies are not part of the program. This is nothing new. When I took Data Structures using C, we were required to pay over $100 (in 1992 dollars) for a pamphlet disguised as a text because which happened to be written by the instructor. We did not open the book.

twowheels · 08-22-2013, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizwor

Well, maybe, but I can't see java offending anyone.

Java? Are you responding to the wrong thread? I see no previous mention of Java in this thread!

EDIT: And I find the suggestion that anything be written in Java to be quite offensive. :-)

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08-18-2013, 05:38 AM	#2
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 73,773 Karma: 315126578 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	Wow. Astonishing.

08-18-2013, 06:42 AM	#3
Sil_liS Wizard Posts: 4,896 Karma: 33602910 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+	Maybe this is something like the rule that you are not allowed to take library books across country borders.

08-18-2013, 07:28 AM	#5
vivaldirules When's Doughnut Day? Posts: 10,059 Karma: 13675475 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Houston, TX, US Device: Sony PRS-505, iPad	Geographical Restrictions Coming to a county/parrish/city/district/precinct/subdivision/block near you!

08-18-2013, 08:06 AM	#8
Sregener Addict Posts: 239 Karma: 1664052 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Kindle 4NT	Renting has always come with restrictions that ownership does not, but this does seem a little... strange.

08-18-2013, 08:31 AM	#9
Jessica Lares Wizard Posts: 2,240 Karma: 5759170 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Near Dallas, Texas, USA Device: iPad Mini, iPod Touch (5th gen)	I think what they're trying to say is that you need to order your books right when you get to campus for the semester, and then you need to return them right after your exams. Basically they're trying to limit the damage and loss of their goods when they're sitting on the floor for a month before you go back, in the car, and as non carry-on luggage on buses and planes.

08-18-2013, 09:35 AM	#11
wizwor Wizard Posts: 1,068 Karma: 23867385 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: kindle, fire	There are probably obscure laws designed to ensure schools can overcharge for texts. My kid gets a book list just a few days before classes start. Some of the books are 'special editions' or come with software codes that cost as much as the book if purchased separately. No doubt in my mind the intent is to make local purchase more appealing. Big Education: Overcharging and Undereducating.

08-18-2013, 02:51 PM	#13
Andrew H. Grand Master of Flowers Posts: 2,201 Karma: 8389072 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Naptown Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)	I have a hard time seeing how this is connected to the sales tax issue at all - and the only person quoted in the article, from the "Campus Computing Project" - does not seem to be anyone with any actual expertise in the matter. If I rent a car in one state and drive it to another state, I don't have have to pay taxes on it in the other state. If I rent a TV in one state and take it to another state, I don't have to pay sales tax on it in the other state. So I can't see why it would be any different for textbooks, nor can I see why Amazon, even if they were responsible for collecting taxes, as they are in some states, would be responsible for collecting taxes in states where the transaction did not occur simply because the renter took the rented item across state lines. But I'm not sure what the purpose of the rule would be, although I suspect that it comes from the publishers and not from Amazon directly, since I don't think that Amazon has any interest in making things difficult for their customers.