An interesting conversation with Kobo about ebook prices

[Mivo]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

I want to read and American writers (not English books in general but usually American books) appeal more to me because of the genres I read.

*nods*

I have similar views, and I don't feel that a universal world language is desirable. Language is culture, an expression of it too, and bits of meaning, the subtle kind, are prone to getting lost in translation. Translations can be, and often are, excellent, but they're always a little different, similar without a doubt, but not quite identical.

While most of the books that I buy and read are in English, it is because they were originally written in that language. When I read books from German authors (Schätzing, Hohlbein, etc.), then I buy them in German and would never touch an English translation. A decade plus ago I even started learning Italian because I wanted to read Eco in his native language. (Didn't get too far with that, mostly because I didn't know anyone who spoke the language, so the motivation weakened quickly.)

[samhy]

Originally Posted by xwolfi

So I don't really mind anymore, I leave my language on the side of the road and I go on with english. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and these publishers are digging their own grave. The day we all read english, they won't be needed anymore. Wouldn't that be an interesting development ?

Off-topic
I bet the French publishers would disagree, though. They will still be needed by the French authors who I doubt will start writing in English overnight, if ever.

Of course to each its own, but you would be surprised by the number of French learners. Also French is a language natively spoken on every continent. This can't be said of that many languages.

It turns out I can interact in several languages and the more I know of languages, the more I like each of them for what make them specific, French included I have heard many learners said they like the flow of the French language with all the liaisons between words.

[xwolfi]

Originally Posted by samhy

I'm not sure to understand why you had to change your location. My account is set to France and I could buy the 4-book bundle for less than 10€ (with a discount, but it is about 15€ otherwise). Would that be much cheaper with a US account?
Still speaking of A Song of Ice and Fire, the UK released twice a book in two parts. But I believe that series isn't a good example since many editions exist and it's very confusing. Just keep in mind that one can find each original book translated in one and only one book in French

Regarding the original topic, if the price of an ebook from a French publisher is higher at Kobo, by calling and letting them know they have to match the lower price. It happened to me once or twice, but I seldom see it.
If the ebook doesn't belong to a French publisher it's different, but a Kobo rep told me on the phone that, if I don't mind to contact them, I could try to ask them to match the price. I haven't tried so far.

Well I haven't checked this month, but don't forget that in France we divided the books in 10 parts instead of 5, so maybe the pack you're refering to is only for the 2 first books ? Something else that could explain why I could have missed it is the HORRIBLE search feature, unable to find a book accurately even if you give the name of the author and the title

[xwolfi]

Originally Posted by Mivo

It is partly, perhaps mainly, because of the different markets. The recommended prices differ from region to region, depending on what is established and accepted. You'll find the same in other areas too, e.g. electronics and video games, though the diffences are not as drastic as with books.

The situation is similar here in Germany. I wanted to pick up a copy of Dan Brown's Inferno a while ago and saw the e-book price tag of 20 euro (26 USD). No go. A couple of months ago I wanted to buy the Neverwinter Saga books in the German iBooks store. They only offered me the German translations and would not even let me buy the English originals. In both cases I bought nothing.

Sure, I could jump through hoops and fake my location, tunnel my connection or do all sorts of things to buy e-books at US prices, but I instead take the hint and vote with my wallet. I don't pay outlandish prices and I don't sneak around for the privilege of giving a publisher my money. In a world where there is no shortage of e-literature, and certainly no lack of ways to get what you want to read, market restrictions and vastly different pricing schemes for identical products are astonishingly short-sighted approaches.

More recently I started to buy from indie publishers and authors. Not only is this extremely affordable, but it is also offering access to books that don't follow the beaten track of whatever the large publishing houses deem worth printing (so much seems same-y).

I hear that a lot from american friends. Voting with our wallet is a concept they are attracted to, but I feel like we're not on an equal footing compared to the heavy marketing and the lack of hope we face from the opponents.

Okay you won't give money or visibility to the book, but publishers have massive advertisements and people are so isolated they don't really feel like their voice could matter. Therefore not buying Dan Brown's book will not really make the market understand it has to adapt, and people will still buy/sell at higher prices simply because they can.

And I'm kinda thinking about these indie authors, but I don't read only for the content but also for the social factor. Speaking about a classic book and discussing the ideas in it with others is a good part of what I like in reading
But maybe I'm mixing indie and self-published. I just fear that now that we can all publish on the internet, any moron can too and a publisher is like a reassuring light in the night pointing toward the worthy books. Which is obviously not always true and often misleading.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by xwolfi

But maybe I'm mixing indie and self-published. I just fear that now that we can all publish on the internet, any moron can too and a publisher is like a reassuring light in the night pointing toward the worthy books. Which is obviously not always true and often misleading.

What I find is that almost all self-published ebooks highlight the important role of the editor as well as the publisher. The vast majority of self-published books should never have left the slush pile. I really don't have the time to read through hundreds of books in the hopes of finding one that makes the process worthwhile so I wait for someone whom I have some trust in to comment on the books they have read before I will even consider reading a book by an author unknown to me.

Regards,
David

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by xwolfi

I hear that a lot from american friends. Voting with our wallet is a concept they are attracted to, but I feel like we're not on an equal footing compared to the heavy marketing and the lack of hope we face from the opponents.

Okay you won't give money or visibility to the book, but publishers have massive advertisements and people are so isolated they don't really feel like their voice could matter. Therefore not buying Dan Brown's book will not really make the market understand it has to adapt, and people will still buy/sell at higher prices simply because they can.

And I'm kinda thinking about these indie authors, but I don't read only for the content but also for the social factor. Speaking about a classic book and discussing the ideas in it with others is a good part of what I like in reading
But maybe I'm mixing indie and self-published. I just fear that now that we can all publish on the internet, any moron can too and a publisher is like a reassuring light in the night pointing toward the worthy books. Which is obviously not always true and often misleading.

Voting with your wallet is fine in concept, but even in America does the publisher/retailer care. You need publicity and group effort to get any effect at all.

I vote with my wallet all the time but it is due to thrift, not under the impression that I am making a difference or sadly that I am even morally right. Some poor guy may have to charge higher prices just to keep afloat. And I do buy from my smaller local stores when the price difference is low, but faced with the choice of buying two of a product for 5.97 or buying one of same product for 11.99, I will buy the 2 for $5.97. Just can't justify paying more than four times as much. And this is a common occurrence.

I don't go the Indie route, mainly because I am old and the publishers have always delivered books pretty consistent with my expectations and continue to do so. I am sure many Indie books are as good, but I have been unlucky with the few I have tried. Even the few Indie books that have hit the big time and have gone the traditional publishing route have not been my cup of tea. Not saying they are bad as many books are not my cup of tea But with publishers I seem to know where I stand. I read probably 60% old tried and true authors, many of whom are dead unfortunately, and about 40% new authors, some of whom it is their first published books. My satisfaction is over 90% I would guess with both categories. Assuming my satisfaction was over 10% with Indie books, which hasn't been the case with even those who got picked up by a publisher, I would have to buy 8+ books to find one I wanted to read. Not my idea of a good time I'm afraid.

For those with worse economic restrictions for ebook buying than Canada and without Canada's excellent ebook libraries, I would recommend voting with your vote. Lobby your politicians through email phone calls and snail mail. While America may have better pricing than some other countries, other countries produce less books and are perhaps more open to reform as they are not actually receiving the same number of tax dollars from the publishers.

Helen

[Mivo]

Originally Posted by DNSB

What I find is that almost all self-published ebooks highlight the important role of the editor as well as the publisher. The vast majority of self-published books should never have left the slush pile.

My workaround is to focus on self-publishing authors who also have, or have had, books published in the traditional way. This is working fairly well for me ("Havenstar" by Glenda Larke turned out to be excellent fantasy, to name an example). With some genres, like flash fiction, there is usually no alternative to indie/self-publishing authors anyway, as is often the case with even short stories.

There's the vicious circle of editors deciding what is sold, and editors buying what sells. I understand why editors do that, and I understand the desire to buy manuscripts from established authors. It's not just for the actual or supposed quality, or the writer being familiar with procedures (certainly a plus: in my job I also prefer to hire folks who have experience and I don't need to drag them through the professional basics), it's also because of customers not wanting to experiment.

Take the Cuckoo's Calling for instance. It sold some 1500 copies when it had no big name attached to it. As soon it "leaked" that it was written by Rowling, it suddenly became a bestseller. If it had been written by a genuinely new, previously unpublished author, it would never have broken through.

I do feel more comfortable buying a novel published by a "professional" publisher, but half of the novels I sample-read (iBooks lets you read the first 50-200 pages) I discard, because they don't appeal to me, so just having been edited professionally doesn't necessarily make a book enjoyable.

(Sometimes I think I should stick to old stuff from the 60s through 80s, which seems to generally appeal the most to me!)

[samhy]

Originally Posted by xwolfi

Well I haven't checked this month, but don't forget that in France we divided the books in 10 parts instead of 5, so maybe the pack you're refering to is only for the 2 first books ? Something else that could explain why I could have missed it is the HORRIBLE search feature, unable to find a book accurately even if you give the name of the author and the title

I guess we don't talk about the same thing. The four-book bundle does contain the four first books, in English. I'm halfway through and it's lengthy alright
Now regarding the French version (paper or electronic books), it seems as easy to find the five first books (those translated from the five original books) as it is to find the more divided ones.

But I still don't understand why you had to use a fake address? In the end what books did you get? The English ones or the French ones?
Once again when reading in English, the four-book bundle is the best value, IMO. Right after, it's the five-book bundle. Then you can buy the books individually.

[xwolfi]

Originally Posted by samhy

I guess we don't talk about the same thing. The four-book bundle does contain the four first books, in English. I'm halfway through and it's lengthy alright
Now regarding the French version (paper or electronic books), it seems as easy to find the five first books (those translated from the five original books) as it is to find the more divided ones.

But I still don't understand why you had to use a fake address? In the end what books did you get? The English ones or the French ones?
Once again when reading in English, the four-book bundle is the best value, IMO. Right after, it's the five-book bundle. Then you can buy the books individually.

Well to be honest I didn't find the english versions on the french store. I found the french divided books for 10 euros each (10 french books for 5 english books and no pack: 100 euros for the whole translated set) looked on the US store and found
a 5-pack for 40 euros and told myself it was outrageous.

I didn't use my american account for this particular book that I don't want to read right now, but for the sake of it (I have two ereaders) and indeed, the more I compare the two stores, the more I realise that Rakuten is not abusing too much on the prices. Some editions are different however (you can find an english publisher for a book on the french store totally different from the english publishers on the US store) but some prices are even lower on the french store if you take the current EUR/USD rate.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Mivo

My workaround is to focus on self-publishing authors who also have, or have had, books published in the traditional way. This is working fairly well for me ("Havenstar" by Glenda Larke turned out to be excellent fantasy, to name an example). With some genres, like flash fiction, there is usually no alternative to indie/self-publishing authors anyway, as is often the case with even short stories.

I have followed authors when they moved to self-publishing and I have enjoyed their previous books. A proven track record and good word of mouth is one of the best ways to get my moneys worth from a book.

Originally Posted by Mivo

There's the vicious circle of editors deciding what is sold, and editors buying what sells. I understand why editors do that, and I understand the desire to buy manuscripts from established authors. It's not just for the actual or supposed quality, or the writer being familiar with procedures (certainly a plus: in my job I also prefer to hire folks who have experience and I don't need to drag them through the professional basics), it's also because of customers not wanting to experiment.

It is a gamble on unproven authors but one that needs to be done if you want to last in the business. And yes, it's hard to sell a newer author to someone who is looking for more of the same.

Originally Posted by Mivo

I do feel more comfortable buying a novel published by a "professional" publisher, but half of the novels I sample-read (iBooks lets you read the first 50-200 pages) I discard, because they don't appeal to me, so just having been edited professionally doesn't necessarily make a book enjoyable.

(Sometimes I think I should stick to old stuff from the 60s through 80s, which seems to generally appeal the most to me!)

I like publisher's such as Baen where they make the first part of a book available to read on line. I've bought quite a few books after previewing them. However, I've also found many books that did not grab me in those first chapters so never did buy them.

The problem with most of my favourite authors from the 60 to 80's is that few of them are still alive much less writing.

Professional editing does not necessarily make a book more enjoyable but it seems to improve the chances of a good read. Do you want 99 to 1 odds or 24 to 1 odds? Still a crapshoot.

Regards,
David