Amazon, Kobo and Sony request e-readers be exempt from accessibility laws

[Antoinekamel]

E-readers can already be hacked and run an almost full-functioning Android system. When e-ink gets faster (it will happen, as by news posted in this forum), nothing out-of-the-box will limit e-readers power.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Also, several of the claims in their petition are skewed: yes, e-readers are marketed for reading, but it's disingenuous to claim that they're not also marketed with internet features ("experimental" or not).

From Kindle Paperwhite page on Amazon.com, main point of each summary bullet point (copied), none left out:

provide the perfect reading experience in all lighting conditions
brilliant resolution
sharp, dark text
delivers clear, crisp text and images with no glare
New hand-tuned fonts
8-week battery life,
Holds up to 1,100 books
Built-in Wi-Fi lets you download books
Time to Read feature
Massive book selection
180,000 Kindle-exclusive titles
Supports children's books
books to borrow for free

Not a single one of those points mentions anything other than reading.

Looking for other stuff on the page related to connectivity, I find:

3G connectivity lets you download books anytime, anywhere.

With wireless coverage in over 100 countries and territories, Kindle Paperwhite 3G lets you download books anytime, anywhere,


...

There is one brief paragraph on connectivity:

Search Wikipedia and the Web
Kindle Paperwhite makes it easy for you to search. Enter a word or phrase and Kindle will search every instance across your Kindle library, in the Kindle Store, on Wikipedia, or the Web using Google search. Kindle Paperwhite features an experimental WebKit-based browser to provide a better experience on your e-reader.

That's it... and they still tie the search in with searching your books, Wikipedia, and the web... still related to reading.


Similarly:

On Kobo's website on the page for the Glo... not a SINGLE mention of the web, internet, browser, nothing...

[TadW]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I don't know which features they're trying to avoid having to provide; they're seeking exemption from a law without stating how compliance would make a difference. I'd like to know what they'd be required to include before I decide if it's reasonable that they want to avoid that responsibility.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by twowheels

From Kindle Paperwhite page on Amazon.com, main point of each summary bullet point (copied), none left out:

• Built-in Wi-Fi lets you download books

Not a single one of those points mentions anything other than reading.

Looking for other stuff on the page related to connectivity, I find:

• 3G connectivity lets you download books anytime, anywhere.
• With wireless coverage in over 100 countries and territories, Kindle Paperwhite 3G lets you download books anytime, anywhere,

There is one brief paragraph on connectivity:

Search Wikipedia and the Web
Kindle Paperwhite makes it easy for you to search. Enter a word or phrase and Kindle will search every instance across your Kindle library, in the Kindle Store, on Wikipedia, or the Web using Google search. Kindle Paperwhite features an experimental WebKit-based browser to provide a better experience on your e-reader.

That's it... and they still tie the search in with searching your books, Wikipedia, and the web... still related to reading.

Similarly:

On Kobo's website on the page for the Glo... not a SINGLE mention of the web, internet, browser, nothing...

How about:

Shop anywhere
Kobo Glo comes fully equipped with built-in Wi Fi so you can shop on the go. Whether you're at home, at your local coffee shop, or even in a bricks-and-mortar store (we won't tell), you can connect to any hotspot and access over 3.5 million eBooks. That way you can start a new eBook whenever you want. Never stop reading!

While I agree that the internet features of e-ink readers are focused around reading, they're still internet features. They should be required to be as compliant with accessibility laws on these readers as they are on tablets.

Also, the "Kobo Picks" feature says:

Kobo Picks makes finding the perfect read a no-brainer. Based on your actual preferences and feedback, Kobo Picks brings you fantastic personalized eBook recommendations and previews you'll love, including things you never knew existed.

They don't directly state it as "we monitor all your reading habits to push new advertising your direction," but that doesn't mean there's no connectivity involved.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Antoinekamel

E-readers can already be hacked and run an almost full-functioning Android system. When e-ink gets faster (it will happen, as by news posted in this forum), nothing out-of-the-box will limit e-readers power.

Can e-ink readers be hacked to run Android?

E-ink will get faster, but it's probably never going to be commercially viable to run videos on it, and the color problems (colors look washed-out and dull) are a matter of physics, not technological skill.

In any case "device is hackable to do [X]" is not likely to be relevant in legal discussions about what features are required to be included.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

but that doesn't mean there's no connectivity involved.

Nobody said that there wasn't connectivity. You've now moved the goalposts.

I was responding to ONE statement, which I already quoted:

It's disingenuous to claim that they're not also marketed with internet features ("experimental" or not).

Your statement, due to the addition of "("experimental" nor not)", was best interpreted as being a reference to the web browser, or general purpose internet browsing. The items you quoted aren't general purpose internet features, they're very specific activities closely related to the task of reading.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by twowheels

Nobody said that there wasn't connectivity. You've now moved the goalposts.

I'm not trying to set posts to win an argument; I'm trying to sort out the claims that they have no reason to provide accessibility features.

I was responding to ONE statement, which I already quoted:
It's disingenuous to claim that they're not also marketed with internet features ("experimental" or not).

Your statement, due to the addition of "("experimental" nor not)", was best interpreted as being a reference to the web browser, or general purpose internet browsing.

Without moving the posts: I was referring to both bookstore access and general internet use. Whether they market the browser as "experimental" is irrelevant; there is no "beta-version exception" for manufacturing standards. And ebookstore access is a *strongly* marketed feature; no matter how limited that is, it should be required to fit whatever accessibility laws apply to online shopping.

The items you quoted aren't general purpose internet features, they're very specific activities closely related to the task of reading.

Yes? And what's that got to do with whether they should be usable by people with disabilities?

I don't challenge the claim that e-ink devices are "all about the reading;" I'm challenging the claim that their internet features (which are in support of reading) should therefore be exempt from accessibility requirements.

It's possible that the accessibility requirements mentioned don't apply to reading at all--that they have to do with video, with voice-chat options, or with display of pictures. In that case, they should probably be granted the exemption. If, however, the accessibility requirements involve text-to-speech for web browsers, I don't see that they should be exempt from that just because the browser isn't a "main feature" of the device.

General web browsing isn't a main feature; shopping in the ebook store is.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

And ebookstore access is a *strongly* marketed feature; no matter how limited that is, it should be required to fit whatever accessibility laws apply to online shopping.

Not if it means TTS.

[fjtorres]

Software features like large-text menus shouldn't be an issue. But for all three to be spooked some hardware feature must is likely involved. Probably involving the installed base.
Tech companies don't court bad press without good cau$e.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by theducks

Why are paper books still allowed to be printed?

Because the relevant law, the Twenty-First Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act of 2010, doesn't address books.

Moving back a step, the primary reason that legislators pass laws is to get reelected. Suppose that they had required government libraries to buy a large print book whenever available, or set a minimum font size for all paper books. These might or might not be good ideas, but won't be made law solely because they would open Congress up to ridicule and hinder reelection.

[Jessica Lares]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I know people who use e-readers with their kids who have learning disabilities. the TTS in conjunction with the words on the page helped kids with dyslexia. Not to mention, the TTS on a Kindle made books available to folks on a device that was a good deal less then a computer or tablet. It meant not having to pay more for audible books (e books tend to be less expensive) and for people on a tight budget that would be important.

Just because this feature was not useful to many people on this board does not mean that it was not an important feature. It was valuable to many folks and probably would have been greatly appreciated by many more folk with some small tweaks and the Publishing Houses not being jack asses.

Better education, classes with mixed sensory learning (read, hear, watch), will help those who have a hard time reading, to not get left behind. Especially when themes and plots start getting complicated.

Are audiobooks expensive? Maybe. But they're human voices.

[speakingtohe]

I cannot imagine using TTS to browse the web. Probably someone is doing it and if it in common usage or all tablets and computers without 3rd party add-ons well that is great.

I have no problem with ereaders providing extra features and if it costs more it will be my choice whether I pay more.
Anything that can be done for the handicapped is good IMO.

But if it is the responsibility of the library or school to provide all ACS compliant devices why is it not their responsibility to provide brail copies of all books and players for all media.

My aunt is blind and has been provided with a player, by the CNIB which she had to pay for. This player does not allow TTS web browsing, or anything else, other than playing CDs.
It does not even have a menu or voice input to start and stop playing.

And instead of trying to force the manufacturers to make ereaders into small mainframes, why not offer a contract to the manufacturer with the most compliant device. 10,000 ereaders in each of 10,000 institutions looks like a big enough carrot on a stick to me.

And that seems to be the problem. Whether institutions should buy anything that cannot be used by everybody. I may be misunderstanding totally, maybe they can't. Maybe all the books, and computers are 100% ACS compliant and I just don't know it.

One solution could be that if you have x users and 3% are blind you buy at least 3% audio capable devices even if they cost 10 times as much. Or 30% if they are all going to be used.
Kind of like apartment buildings or handicapped washrooms. A percentage must be available, but not all.

I don't think that ereaders have been around long enough to be considered an essential product that everyone has access to, and I don't that most libraries and/or schools provide them to patrons/students. Where I live, most schools do not provide textbooks, the students must buy them themselves. But if they are to provide them the handicapped should have their fair share.

Helen

[Teknikal]

Could be the death of eink at least as far as readers go, I can't see manufacturers making what's in essence a tablet then giving it an e-ink screen which would be useless for internet, video etc they would want to appeal to the mass market more.

Doesn't really bother me but I do like eink for mainly the battery life this move would likely kill that also even if the eink screens stayed.

[tracings]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

I dispute that adding the needed features would destroy the idea of ereaders. And since when did reading only involve the eyes?

Originally Posted by elcreative

Pretty much a definition of reading... and I can't remember the last time I gave a book a good licking... and I certainly reserve my fondling for things that are a little more responsive...

I'm curious: what word do you use for "reading" Braille. I don't know of another word for it. Though Braille uses a different sense than vision, it provides the reader with all of the text and formatting information of the original text.

While it may not as "responsive" as some things you touch, Braille provides access to the same story, in pretty much the same way, as print. (Scientific American and the New York Times have reported on studies that found that reading Braille stimulates the same part of the brain that is activated by reading print.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by tracings

I'm curious: what word do you use for "reading" Braille. I don't know of another word for it. Though Braille uses a different sense than vision, it provides the reader with all of the text and formatting information of the original text.

This. I also know people who prefer to "read" audiobooks. And then there's the Daisy formats which are text files with custom tags. I have difficulty imaging that Daisy doesn't qualify as reading.