PDF is not an ebook format!

[jersysman]

The typical result for converting a PDF into an epub is horrendous.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by jersysman

The typical result for converting a PDF into an epub is horrendous.

I generally have no problems unless it is a scanned image. About 10% don't convert easily, but usually it can be done and the result is almost always pretty good for standard ebooks (those without the side menu).

Helen

If the vendor doesn't specify, ask. If the vendor doesn't answer, you aren't compelled to buy it.

This problem was partially created by Adobe. Judging from Rob Lister's screen captures, they format is being indicated correctly. ePub is ePub and PDF has been referred to as Adobe in many circles ever since Adobe dropped the Acrobat.

PDF is a perfectly acceptable ebook format. The fact that it's a page description language doesn't exclude it from that categorization, it simply makes PDF harder to use on different screen sizes and aspect ratios. Yet it has been utilized for purely electronic documents for years.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I generally have no problems unless it is a scanned image. About 10% don't convert easily, but usually it can be done and the result is almost always pretty good for standard ebooks (those without the side menu).

Helen

Not in my experience: no matter the conversion software I use (calibre, Adobe Acrobat Professional, Mobipocket Creator, you name it), I always end up with broken paragraphs and lost scene changes.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Not in my experience: no matter the conversion software I use (calibre, Adobe Acrobat Professional, Mobipocket Creator, you name it), I always end up with broken paragraphs and lost scene changes.

Happens for me occasionally as well, but nothing to serious. Does not happen often in most books and I can live with it usually when it does or fix it easily.

I do find cropping the book as close as is practical helps a lot and the result is usually IMO better on an ereader than the PDF format.

Helen

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

If the vendor doesn't specify, ask. If the vendor doesn't answer, you aren't compelled to buy it.

This problem was partially created by Adobe. Judging from Rob Lister's screen captures, they format is being indicated correctly. ePub is ePub and PDF has been referred to as Adobe in many circles ever since Adobe dropped the Acrobat.

PDF is a perfectly acceptable ebook format. The fact that it's a page description language doesn't exclude it from that categorization, it simply makes PDF harder to use on different screen sizes and aspect ratios. Yet it has been utilized for purely electronic documents for years.

epub is also Adobe encrypted, so "Adobe Encrypted(DRM)" would also mean epub to me.

Since even PDF files that are supposedly well designed looked horrible on my Boox 60 and not very good on my Sony 950, PDF is not an ebook format. I had The Lord of the Rings in PDF before I knew better, and it was unreadable on my Boox 60 even though it was reflowable. I have seen some people point this book out as well formatted.

On my Sony 950 it mostly reflowed ok, but there were parts of the text that did not display correctly and I was left with many pages that had only only a few lines - these were at the end of every "PDF page". So if a PDF page had 60 lines and my font size gave me only 50 lines I would have one page with 50 lines and the next had 10 lines, the next with 50 the next 10... The page with 10 lines also would end in the middle of the line because whatever was the last word on the PDF page was also the last word on the epub page even if it was the middle of the line. Sony was supposed to have good PDF capabilities - even this was better than the Boox did.

The title at the top of every PDF pagE was incorrect - "THE LORD OF THE RINGS" showed as "TH E L ORD OF THE RI NGS" on my Sony, and the Boox had parts of the text this way and also extra blank lines here and there.

*Not* an ebook format.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Rob Lister

Most places categorize PDF as an e-book format. It is incumbent on the buyer to check what format. For example, this


instead of what you wanted, which was this


I'd be pissed too though if I had overlooked that.

I've bought from them off and on for years, so know what "Adobe Encrypted" means (they used it before they even had ePub's), but have always thought that once they started with DRM'd ePub that the Adobe Encrypted descriptor was confusing and should be changed.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

If the vendor doesn't specify, ask. If the vendor doesn't answer, you aren't compelled to buy it.

This problem was partially created by Adobe. Judging from Rob Lister's screen captures, they format is being indicated correctly. ePub is ePub and PDF has been referred to as Adobe in many circles ever since Adobe dropped the Acrobat.

PDF is a perfectly acceptable ebook format. The fact that it's a page description language doesn't exclude it from that categorization, it simply makes PDF harder to use on different screen sizes and aspect ratios. Yet it has been utilized for purely electronic documents for years.

While the kindest word I can use to describe PDF as a format for fiction is loathsome, it definitely does have its place - particularly for manuals and technical books.

However, I don't believe "Adobe" is an adequate description. It may be common in some circles, but the only universally accepted term for the format is PDF. It should have been on the page, not just "Adobe."

[cfrizz]

You need to have Adobe to unlock both epubs & pdfs so just using that as the descriptor is meaningless. If it is a pdf then it should be clearly marked as such and the same with epub.

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

epub is also Adobe encrypted, so "Adobe Encrypted(DRM)" would also mean epub to me.

I agree that it is ambiguous given that Adobe provides both ADEPT and PDF. Even written more properly as "Adobe, Encrypted (DRM)" many people would be mislead. I would probably make a mistake in interpreting it the first time around (if I wasn't forewarned by this thread), but I wouldn't blame the bookseller. It would be my fault for not clairifying the matter. I don't think that they are being deliberately misleading.

Since even PDF files that are supposedly well designed looked horrible on my Boox 60 and not very good on my Sony 950, PDF is not an ebook format.

Sorry, but I cannot agree. That would be like saying a truck is not a vehicle because a truck won't fit into a parkade. The term ebook (like vehicle) is generic. While some ebooks should be reflowable so that it works well on portable ereaders like your Boox 60 and Sony 950, some ebooks are not easy to format in that manner. Yes, LotR should have been one of those reflowable ebooks. On the other hand, I read a lot of ebooks that are PDF because they are much more demanding than the typical novel (e.g. technical books).

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I agree that it is ambiguous given that Adobe provides both ADEPT and PDF. Even written more properly as "Adobe, Encrypted (DRM)" many people would be mislead. I would probably make a mistake in interpreting it the first time around (if I wasn't forewarned by this thread), but I wouldn't blame the bookseller. It would be my fault for not clairifying the matter. I don't think that they are being deliberately misleading.

(snipped)

Adobe uses the ADEPT DRM scheme to encrypt both epub and PDF. Because the term Adobe can be used to refer to either the PDF file format, or the ADEPT DRM scheme. Their usage of "Adobe Encrypted (DRM)" can only be unambiguously interpreted to mean that it uses ADEPT DRM, not the file format.

Referring to the file format simply as "Adobe" is just a bad idea to start with.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I agree that it is ambiguous given that Adobe provides both ADEPT and PDF. Even written more properly as "Adobe, Encrypted (DRM)" many people would be mislead. I would probably make a mistake in interpreting it the first time around (if I wasn't forewarned by this thread), but I wouldn't blame the bookseller. It would be my fault for not clairifying the matter. I don't think that they are being deliberately misleading.

It doesn't matter if it wasn't deliberate, it is the vendors responsibility to let you know the format.

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Sorry, but I cannot agree. That would be like saying a truck is not a vehicle because a truck won't fit into a parkade. The term ebook (like vehicle) is generic. While some ebooks should be reflowable so that it works well on portable ereaders like your Boox 60 and Sony 950, some ebooks are not easy to format in that manner. Yes, LotR should have been one of those reflowable ebooks. On the other hand, I read a lot of ebooks that are PDF because they are much more demanding than the typical novel (e.g. technical books).

You're right, I should have been more specific. Technical books frequently need to be PDF.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Referring to the file format simply as "Adobe" is just a bad idea to start with.

It definitely was. IIRC some other stores used similar descriptors for DRM'd PDFs before ePub came along. The difference being the other stores changed things when ePub started while Diesel didn't.


@meeera, have you tried contacting Diesel CS or PMing Scott from Diesel here on the forum to express your displeasure?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

@meeera, have you tried contacting Diesel CS or PMing Scott from Diesel here on the forum to express your displeasure?

I contacted Diesel CS within minutes of purchase. Their response was unsatisfactory.

[Ansileran]

So you are ranting because you didn't bother to check the format on the book you bought beforehand when it was clearly not stated? While I agree that the website should have clearly stated which format it was in, as long as they didn't put any false information (saying it's an epub when it's actually a pdf), they are not in the wrong. Poor customer relationship, definitely.

Sorry, but I have always thought that it's a buyer's responsability to check that the product meets his/her requirement: if I want a gluten free product, then I should make sure the one I buy is. If it's not clearly stated, I ask or I buy something else.