Reading in English as a Non-native Speaker

[Majorix]

@Antoinekamel:

I find that if I use a translation dictionary, I tend to memorize words faster. I used to own a localized version of Pandigital Novel here, with an English to Turkish dictionary. However it was very limited in the number of entries, and I would sometimes come across words that were not even in the dictionary. I was so upset that I had to hand the reader down to my cousin.

Later when I got a Kindle PW, I tried a custom translation dictionary, but once again it was really limited. I think it contained only like 40k lines.

I had no luck with my Kobo Mini either. Couldn't find a decent translation dictionary.

So for now I have to stick to EN->EN dictionaries.

BTW Point 2 gave me ideas. I will be working on it.

[Atunah]

I wish I had had my Kindle when I started reading English fiction. I didn't have a dictionary either. I just kept plugging along.

Same way I kept on trying to speak with folks, even though half of it went over my head.


Now I love using my kindle dictionary for looking up historical terms especially.

[Lynx-lynx]

Whilst I don't qualify to post in this thread because I am a native English speaker, as an Australian my native language is English ... Australian English.

But to Microsoft and lots of other companies/programs they think that I must/should write/spell US English and don't provide the native dictionary spello option of Aus English. Yucko no!! I speak Aus English.

And when traveling overseas I've often been complimented on my ability to speak English, because for some reason some people seem to think Australians speak some other language.

So I have entertained them by speaking some Aboriginal place names, or by saying phrases like:
didjahaveagoodweegend

Yeah - I know regard this post as a bit of irrelevant fluff, just a tiff at Australia's official dictionary The Macquarie Dictionary not being recognised by the makers of some of the most used software products in the world.

And I think that the Canadians suffer from this malaise as well - even Kobo doesn't have the Canadian dictionary from memory .... (and it certainly doesn't have the Macq Dict)

So, for those of you who are looking up English words in the Dictionary as you read, I wonder what variation of English you are reading and learning, and if you realised that not only do we spell differently, but we also can have different meanings for words/expressions, although probably not that often, but it can occur.

'Evening wear' is one example ... if you're reading that someone was invited to attend someone's place for dinner and the dress mentioned evening wear - well if you're in Aus then don't turn up in your pyjamas, lol!!

[guanaco]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

So, for those of you who are looking up English words in the Dictionary as you read, I wonder what variation of English you are reading and learning, and if you realised that not only do we spell differently, but we also can have different meanings for words/expressions, although probably not that often, but it can occur.

Yes, I'm aware of the spelling differences between the different varieties of English.

They say that Mexico is the USA backyard, so in general we learn American English. Moreover, the cultural influence of the USA is very big here. Movies, TV shows, books, music, franchises, you name it. From Australia I can only remember watching the Crocodile Dundee movies and Skippy the Kangaroo on TV. Listening Men at Work's "Down Under". And sometimes watching that peculiar sport Australians call "football".

[Kumabjorn]

My native language is Swedish, and apart from a small enclave in Finland it is only spoken in my own country. Since being a small child I have always read a lot. Even text books in school. I would usually just devour them the first days after getting them. After that I never really needed to do homework, it was my way of freeing up time to read the things I really wanted.

I can't say exactly when it happened, but probably around 12 or 13, I had begun reading translated books, and I began realizing that they had a tone of pretentiousness, it was as if the translator's voice was more important than the author's. I wondered how the book would read in original. At that age, a girl is very determined so I started looking for books in English at the library. I remember the odd look the librarian gave me, but we did find some books and she even let me borrow a dictionary (you weren't supposed to bring them out, but it was an older edition).

By struggling and forcing myself to get through those first books, I learned how to read in English and it opened up a whole new world. Especially for entertainment literature, something looked down upon by Swedish authors (this would change over time) and hence not that available. The end result was that I got interested in learning new languages since it opens me up to new experiences and cultures. Even today I look back at that time and once in a while I'll pat my back and say; "You were one smart cookie, girl!"

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by guanaco

Yes, I'm aware of the spelling differences between the different varieties of English.

They say that Mexico is the USA backyard, so in general we learn American English. Moreover, the cultural influence of the USA is very big here. Movies, TV shows, books, music, franchises, you name it. From Australia I can only remember watching the Crocodile Dundee movies and Skippy the Kangaroo on TV. Listening Men at Work's "Down Under". And sometimes watching that peculiar sport Australians call "football".

Ahh yes - Skippy the bush kangaroo, lol!! (Good grief I'm thinking, I hope we're still not being judged on that 60's tv show!! )

(PS: I'm quite aware that Australians abroad can be loutish, vulgar and the rest - so I'm not singling out any nationalities for their boorish behaviour)

Good to see that you don't think that the US entertainment industry is the only English language and culture entertainment industry

It's unfortunate, but I've stood in a queue in Paris for an attraction and the age 40'ish US citizens in front of me were complaining because we were standing in the queue for English speakers and they stated quite loudly that they spoke American, not English, and there should be a queue for them, lol)

(PS: I'm well aware that Australians abroad can display loutish, vulgar and boorish behaviour - I'm not singling out any nationalities)

[guanaco]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

(PS: I'm well aware that Australians abroad can display loutish, vulgar and boorish behaviour - I'm not singling out any nationalities)

I don't know any Australian first-hand, so I can't comment on that, but Mexicans can be very loud. It's as if they want everyone to know that they are Mexican.

About entertainment in English I remembered that public television shows many non-American programs for children (maybe they are cheaper than American or Mexican ones ) and some of these involve Australians. For example, my little daughter (and I too) have enjoyed Mortified, Dead Gorgeous, A gURLs WURLd, and Me & My Monsters. So in conclusion we know that not every Australian uses a slouch hat or has a pet kangaroo on his backyard

I found stereotypes amusing because sometimes are based on real life. For example, if one looks to Speedy Gonzalez, one needs to recognize that southern Mexican peasants dressed that way until maybe middle 20th century.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Gazella

...I enjoy fantasy and science fiction and you very rarely see Arabic books in these genres...

What about the masterpiece of fantasy, Gazella: "The Thousand Nights and a Night" (or "The Arabian Nights") Those were/are great stories and many of us enjoy a lot with them.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Majorix

Hey kacir. Sorry for creating a similar thread, but the title of that one doesn't tell much about how it would be similar to the one I created.

There is no need to apologize. This thread is great, and the other one is quite old by now.
I just wanted to let you know that there is a thread out there that might be interesting to you.

Just keep reading. If you read long enough, some of the language will stick, somehow. Believe me, been there, done that ;-).

[Gazella]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

What about the masterpiece of fantasy, Gazella: "The Thousand Nights and a Night" (or "The Arabian Nights") Those were/are great stories and many of us enjoy a lot with them.

Ohh that's right! It may shock you that I haven't read One Thousand and One Nights

But I'm definitely planning to!

[twowheels]

My answer is not exactly to the question that you asked, as I'm a native English speaker, but I think the question is interesting in the general case.

I learned Spanish in high school (yep, even some Americans bother to learn other languages!) -- it was my favorite subject, so I was fairly good at it, practicing every chance I got. In order to not forget it I have continued to listen to Spanish language radio and to read books, multiple decades later.

I've found the Kindle Paperwhite to be AWESOME for this purpose. Combined with a translating dictionary, the Spanish-->Spanish dictionary (for when the first doesn't find the word), and the translate feature, I can read at an acceptable rate, even when there are many words or phrases that I don't understand. It's weird, but I've learned to read ahead while waiting for the definition to pop up, and then re-insert the word in the sentence and reassemble the meaning "out of order", after the fact, allowing me to keep reading as if I knew the word all along, making up for the delay in getting the definition. My Spanish improves a lot whenever I read a new book. I recently read "Historia de un crimen perfecto", which was a fun easy read, and "just hard enough" that I could read at a good pace, while still expanding my vocabulary now and then.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by Majorix

I think if I was a native speaker of English, I wouldn't bother with learning any other languages (and I guess most US citizens do this already). Most books are written in English, and if not, you can expect a translation into English before any other language.

Many people don't, but some of us did learn other languages. The problem that we have is that there isn't really a clear choice of which language would be best to learn. English is spoken nearly everywhere (and even more for the younger generations due to the Internet) and at the age where you should begin learning a second language in order to become proficient it's too early to have any idea which one you'll need for your future career. I chose Spanish because there are many Mexican people where I live, in fact Hispanics now (or very very soon) make up the largest ethnic group in the state: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2508103.html

I've found Spanish to be useful for being able to communicate with many of the first generation immigrants in the area, though I could easily get by without knowing it -- I just think that it allows me to be friendlier and more compassionate. Just the other day I was out riding my bike and a man stopped his car to ask me for directions. After allowing him to try in English and seeing that he was struggling to communicate his need I switched to Spanish, to his great relief and happiness!

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Gazella

Ohh that's right! It may shock you that I haven't read One Thousand and One Nights

But I'm definitely planning to!

Please do it, you won't regret. I read the Richard Burton's translation (yes, I read it in english although I'm a Spanish-speaking ) but you will be able to read "The Nights" in your native language. What a luxury; I envy you

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by guanaco

I don't know any Australian first-hand, so I can't comment on that, but Mexicans can be very loud. It's as if they want everyone to know that they are Mexican.

About entertainment in English I remembered that public television shows many non-American programs for children (maybe they are cheaper than American or Mexican ones ) and some of these involve Australians. For example, my little daughter (and I too) have enjoyed Mortified, Dead Gorgeous, A gURLs WURLd, and Me & My Monsters. So in conclusion we know that not every Australian uses a slouch hat or has a pet kangaroo on his backyard

I found stereotypes amusing because sometimes are based on real life. For example, if one looks to Speedy Gonzalez, one needs to recognize that southern Mexican peasants dressed that way until maybe middle 20th century.

Thanks for that info on the Aus kids shows ( I didn't know about them) and I'm glad that they're reaching and (hopefully) being enjoyed by a wide viewing audience.

We've got a free to air tv station here called SBS (Special Broadcasting Service) that was established: "to provide multilingual and multicultural radio and television services that inform, educate and entertain all Australians and, in doing so, reflect Australia's multicultural society".

My family and I are great watchers of SBS and spend more than half of our tv viewing time on one or other of their channels.

The format of the channels includes the national news from many different countries - as broadcast from that country in that language, eg Russia, in Russian.

We watch many documentaries and films that are sub-titled into English and particularly enjoy the drama series from various countries.

SBS is also a radio broadcaster and the programs are broadcast in many different languages.

RE Mexico - yes I have watched Mexican movies on SBS, but from memory we don't get your tv national news broadcasts.

I think it's really important to see first hand info about other countries that derive from those countries.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

Please do it, you won't regret. I read the Richard Burton's translation (yes, I read it in english although I'm a Spanish-speaking ) but you will be able to read "The Nights" in your native language. What a luxury; I envy you

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