Surer? More Sure?

VydorScope · 07-02-2013, 09:36 PM

So I just typed in my latest top secret manuscript...

"At each turn he insisted he was sure hew knew where these gardens were and I was more sure that we were completely lost."

And MS Word said "WHAT ARE YOU A BABY? MORE SURE? REALLY! ITS SURER YOU DOPE!" Ok, maybe not exactly like that... but that was the gist of it. But I was sure that "more sure" was the more proper use here? Am I right? Surer breaks the feel that I was shooting for so I will have to redo it completely if MS Word is right.

Pulpmeister · 07-03-2013, 01:03 AM

I have heard, e.g "surer than ever" and I would use it in speech, but the phrase may be an idiom; in your sentence I would go with you and tell MS word to go jump on itself. I would never use MS Word Grammar Check for fiction; it's geared for commercial and business documents and for an reading age of eight. Last time I tried I had a character who was a Duchess, and every time the word cropped up it suggested gender-neutral options...

HarryT · 07-03-2013, 01:52 AM

I would prefer "surer".

cromag · 07-03-2013, 02:00 AM

I would go with "more sure."

I wonder if it's an American/English thing?

HarryT · 07-03-2013, 02:12 AM

It's definitely one of those words where both forms of the comparative are acceptable (unlike, say, "hot", where saying "more hot" is simply wrong). It's really a matter of personal preference.

AlexBell · 07-03-2013, 02:45 AM

I agree that it's a personal preference, but I think that 'more sure' is properer than 'surer.'

afv011 · 07-03-2013, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexBell

I agree that it's a personal preference, but I think that 'more sure' is properer than 'surer.'

Isn't that "more proper"?

gmw · 07-03-2013, 03:42 AM

In certain contexts "surer" sounds okay, but I don't like the sound of it in your example. I question whether "more" is necessary anyway? How do I know that I am "more sure" than he? Alternatively: He was sure but I was certain.

crich70 · 07-03-2013, 05:38 AM

Quote:

"At each turn he insisted he was sure hew knew where these gardens were and I was more sure that we were completely lost."

I'd think something like this would read better myself.

"At each turn he insisted he was certain hew knew where these gardens were and I was even more certain that we were completely lost."

VydorScope · 07-03-2013, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulpmeister

I have heard, e.g "surer than ever" and I would use it in speech, but the phrase may be an idiom; in your sentence I would go with you and tell MS word to go jump on itself. I would never use MS Word Grammar Check for fiction; it's geared for commercial and business documents and for an reading age of eight. Last time I tried I had a character who was a Duchess, and every time the word cropped up it suggested gender-neutral options...

When I turn in my writing for grad school I have to make sure that MS Word loves the text. If there is any errors that MS Word sees, then student assistants to the profs will just take points off blindly. Sure I could contest them and the Profs would adjust the score, sometimes, but its better not to upset the graders if you can help it.

But yeah in fiction, especially in dialog, MS Word does not do as well and I am not a fan of its "his or her" construction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's definitely one of those words where both forms of the comparative are acceptable (unlike, say, "hot", where saying "more hot" is simply wrong). It's really a matter of personal preference.

I am not sure I ever heard of "surer" before this.

But I don't like how the flow works with "surer" in this use case however I might add "becoming"

"At each turn he insisted he was sure he knew where these gardens were and I was becoming more sure that we were completely lost."

VydorScope · 07-03-2013, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmw

In certain contexts "surer" sounds okay, but I don't like the sound of it in your example. I question whether "more" is necessary anyway? How do I know that I am "more sure" than he? Alternatively: He was sure but I was certain.

I could do that, but I like the repetition of "sure" here. Which ever word I use for the other character, I want to use for the "I" character. So I could use certain in both places as crich70 suggests, but I would not want to mix them.

Alyssa Miranda · 07-03-2013, 07:05 AM

or "equally sure" instead of "more sure"? To me, either of these sounds more natural while still conveying the thought you are after.

afv011 · 07-03-2013, 06:56 PM

To me, both "surer" and "more sure" sound wrong. The reason is that, in my opinion, there are no degrees of sureness - either you are sure, or you are not sure, you can't be "more" sure than sure. You can be "almost sure", but not "surer than sure". It's akin to "perfect", there are no degrees of perfection, it's either perfect (in which case it can't be improved and made more perfect), or not perfect. Anyway, just my $0.02.

gmw · 07-03-2013, 08:49 PM

afv011 - Yes there is a sense of the absolute to the word "sure", but dictionary definitions do allow for comparative (for example offering "confident" as a synonym). It is not uncommon for it to be used in this less absolute sense, especially when dealing with dialogue or personal interpretation - as in this case. I would also add that "sure" is describing a state of mind, so absolutes can be hard to come by.

AlexBell · 07-04-2013, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afv011

Isn't that "more proper"?

Yes, of course. It was meant to be a play on words.

07-02-2013, 09:36 PM	#1
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	Surer? More Sure? So I just typed in my latest top secret manuscript... "At each turn he insisted he was sure hew knew where these gardens were and I was more sure that we were completely lost." And MS Word said "WHAT ARE YOU A BABY? MORE SURE? REALLY! ITS SURER YOU DOPE!" Ok, maybe not exactly like that... but that was the gist of it. But I was sure that "more sure" was the more proper use here? Am I right? Surer breaks the feel that I was shooting for so I will have to redo it completely if MS Word is right. Last edited by VydorScope; 07-02-2013 at 09:39 PM.

07-03-2013, 07:05 AM	#12
Alyssa Miranda Connoisseur Posts: 59 Karma: 1121282 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: New Jersey Device: Kindle and Nook	How about "just as sure" or "equally sure" instead of "more sure"? To me, either of these sounds more natural while still conveying the thought you are after.

07-03-2013, 01:03 AM	#2
Pulpmeister Wizard Posts: 2,822 Karma: 29145056 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Device: kindle	I have heard, e.g "surer than ever" and I would use it in speech, but the phrase may be an idiom; in your sentence I would go with you and tell MS word to go jump on itself. I would never use MS Word Grammar Check for fiction; it's geared for commercial and business documents and for an reading age of eight. Last time I tried I had a character who was a Duchess, and every time the word cropped up it suggested gender-neutral options...

07-03-2013, 01:52 AM	#3
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I would prefer "surer".

07-03-2013, 02:00 AM	#4
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,294 Karma: 459765791 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	I would go with "more sure." I wonder if it's an American/English thing?

07-03-2013, 02:12 AM	#5
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	It's definitely one of those words where both forms of the comparative are acceptable (unlike, say, "hot", where saying "more hot" is simply wrong). It's really a matter of personal preference.

07-03-2013, 02:45 AM	#6
AlexBell Wizard Posts: 3,413 Karma: 13369310 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Launceston, Tasmania Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet	I agree that it's a personal preference, but I think that 'more sure' is properer than 'surer.'

07-03-2013, 03:42 AM	#8
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,818 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	In certain contexts "surer" sounds okay, but I don't like the sound of it in your example. I question whether "more" is necessary anyway? How do I know that I am "more sure" than he? Alternatively: He was sure but I was certain.

07-03-2013, 06:56 PM	#13
afv011 Captain Penguin Posts: 2,964 Karma: 2079777777 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Device: Kobo Clara BW, Kobo Libra 2, Nook Glowlight	To me, both "surer" and "more sure" sound wrong. The reason is that, in my opinion, there are no degrees of sureness - either you are sure, or you are not sure, you can't be "more" sure than sure. You can be "almost sure", but not "surer than sure". It's akin to "perfect", there are no degrees of perfection, it's either perfect (in which case it can't be improved and made more perfect), or not perfect. Anyway, just my $0.02.

07-03-2013, 08:49 PM	#14
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,818 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	afv011 - Yes there is a sense of the absolute to the word "sure", but dictionary definitions do allow for comparative (for example offering "confident" as a synonym). It is not uncommon for it to be used in this less absolute sense, especially when dealing with dialogue or personal interpretation - as in this case. I would also add that "sure" is describing a state of mind, so absolutes can be hard to come by.