Would you benefit from file manager on your Kobo reader?

[Ken Maltby]

David's mushroom and hookah pipe are missing, but otherwise...

I have qualified as a senior citizen for some time now, and there is often the assumption that those of us with a few years under our belts are afraid of computers or somehow confused by the technology. What may be underestimated is the result of having been there at the birth of computers and having followed its development from the start. The computers and related devices that we have now are built on the developments made over more than half a century. My experience is hardly unusual and all the "boomers" have experienced the computerization of the world.

The people who use ereaders are admittedly not all MR regulars but the vast majority are those with some computer and internet experience. First to obtain ebooks then to find any reader except the kindle. (The kindle having been the only ereader that was widely advertised, it is possible that some with no computer experience could have joined our ranks without the computer background of most of us.)

Luck;
Ken

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

It's really quite shocking when you come from a DOS background or have a technical background yourself.

DOS? You young un's always seem to thing the computer world started with DOS. OS/8, RDOS, Unix, CP/M ... now those were disk operating systems you could have fun with. Or totally screw up everything...

Regards,
David

[WigglePig]

I'm not sure that a file manager, per se, would be a lot of use for me. What I would like to see is some more sensible way of managing collections, shelves and series and perhaps the facility to edit the meta data.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Ken,

I think they're referring to people that really should be using Apple products rather than PCs. But, you do have to realise that a lot of people who use computers only use them in a very limited scope, Word, Excel, corporate apps, etc. Unless you're an enthusiast or your own IT department, or a home user of PCs a surprising number of people have no idea how to move files around or perform lower level tasks. It's really quite shocking when you come from a DOS background or have a technical background yourself.

As someone who has worked as an application developer for a long time, I expect that from a "normal user". And I've given up on my wife. But, when you see that with other developers do it. I always watch others use their computers in case I see a new trick. But, I usually want to rip the keyboard and mouse out of their hands.

I'm calling dibs on the Mad Hatter costume!

I don't think anyone is going to argue with that

[latepaul]

You only have to look at how many people store all their files on the Desktop.

[Uschiekid]

Originally Posted by latepaul

You only have to look at how many people store all their files on the Desktop.

Exactly

[PeterT]

Not sure how storing files on the desktop relate to a lack of understanding of how to use Windows Explorer?

I for one tend to open files from within an application, and find files from within the same application, and don't browse the file system and click on a document to open it.

I actually think you might find many people use that approach.

[Uschiekid]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Not sure how storing files on the desktop relate to a lack of understanding of how to use Windows Explorer?

Some people don't realise that there are other places to put files, so cover their entire desktop with every program and every file they use. We're not talking about the odd thing being kept on the desktop, but rather the inability to find ANYTHING that isn't located on the desktop.
I've seen it happen.

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Not sure how storing files on the desktop relate to a lack of understanding of how to use Windows Explorer?

I for one tend to open files from within an application, and find files from within the same application, and don't browse the file system and click on a document to open it.

I actually think you might find many people use that approach.

What I see when I open a file within an application, even a book vs. file program like calibre, is something pretty much the same as what you see using Windows Explorer, except it opens the file management in a folder that relates to the program. From there you can navigate through the file system just as you do in Windows Explorer. There is an obvious reason for this.

Luck;
Ken

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by Uschiekid

Some people don't realise that there are other places to put files, so cover their entire desktop with every program and every file they use. We're not talking about the odd thing being kept on the desktop, but rather the inability to find ANYTHING that isn't located on the desktop.
I've seen it happen.

Most programs will default to their own folders to store files, not the desktop.
The programs that suggest the use of the desktop are most often for a temporary file that the user might need to find on his own.

Luck;
Ken

[latepaul]

And yet I keep seeing people's desktop's covered with files. Not everybody but enough so that I think the idea of how files are stored escapes many people.

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

I have qualified as a senior citizen for some time now, and there is often the assumption that those of us with a few years under our belts are afraid of computers or somehow confused by the technology.

I never liked that assumption either. It seems as though every generation has a great number of people who have a very basic knowledge of computers, even if they use them on a daily basis. That's fine. We all have our own priorities in life and, for some of us, computers rank higher than others. Those people are also likely to be knowledgeable in other areas, simply because they see those other areas as being more important to them. It has nothing to do with age and a whole lot to do with interests.

That said, companies like Kobo are trying to cater to both enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts. The former may be able to put up with more complex machines, but the latter would see them as a turn-off. Like it or not, the following process is complex to a lot of those non-enthusiasts: download a book from the Internet, plug reader into computer, copy book from download directory to reader, unplug reader from computer, browse for file on reader. Each of those steps are necessary, and often have multiple sub-steps (especially if you're trying to keep things organized).

Kobo has decided to streamline the process. Everything purchased through them is synchronized through the WiFi connection or their desktop software. Everything borrowed from libraries, or purchased through sources that use Adobe's DRM, is synchronized through Adobe Digital Editions. Specialized software, not a generic file manager, is being used to mediate transactions. If that's the case, why would you suddenly switch to a file manager when using the device itself? You can create a specialized tool that helps readers find books by title and author, rather than the abstraction of file names. You can allow them to arrange books into shelves (a concrete term), rather than directories (an abstract term). Heck, this whole thread belies our technical bias because we are thinking of books as files and categories of books as directories.

Why not satisfy both crowds? In practice it's possible. The question is, is it desirable? From Kobo's perspective, they would have to spread its development resources even further (developing additional features, dealing with the inevitable bugs from those additional features). From the user's perspective, every additional feature makes the software a little more complex. Add enough of those "just one more feature" features, and you end up with software that's a lot more complex. In large part, this is the distinction between Windows and Macintosh. Windows is better because it does more. Macintosh is better because it's more accessible to non-experts. People fear trying new things on Windows because it exposes a lot of functionality that can "break the computer". People are more confident with Apple products because there is very little exposed functionality that can break things. Since Kobo seems to be going after a broader market, it's best to keep things simple.

[TechniSol]

Originally Posted by DNSB

DOS? You young un's always seem to think the computer world started with DOS. OS/8, RDOS, Unix, CP/M ... now those were disk operating systems you could have fun with. Or totally screw up everything...

Okay, okay, I've been (im?)properly chastised, "Gramps." Next time I will write "operating system with a command oriented interface" as opposed to a menu or GUI based OS. I knew I should have been specific -in a more general manner. I somehow managed to avoid the jungle of CP/M with all due respect to Mr. kildall, but I was once upon a time conversant in JCL if you want to go obscure from most people's viewpoints.

As for the ability to really screw things up, DOS came with plenty of ammo. Let's not forget the helpul inclusion of the "format" command, or Windoze leaving anti-personnel devices like regedit laying about for 10 year olds to discover...

[Ken Maltby]

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=215086

Not an attempt to persuade Kobo into anything, just a suggestion for an alternate development.

Luck;
Ken

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Okay, okay, I've been (im?)properly chastised, "Gramps." Next time I will write "operating system with a command oriented interface" as opposed to a menu or GUI based OS. I knew I should have been specific -in a more general manner. I somehow managed to avoid the jungle of CP/M with all due respect to Mr. kildall, but I was once upon a time conversant in JCL if you want to go obscure from most people's viewpoints.

I have horrible memories of JCL. Going from a simple UNIX command line to having to use JCL was as bad as going from coding in WatFor to coding in COBOL. One of the places I was more than happy to leave.

Originally Posted by TechniSol

As for the ability to really screw things up, DOS came with plenty of ammo. Let's not forget the helpul inclusion of the "format" command, or Windoze leaving anti-personnel devices like regedit laying about for 10 year olds to discover...

Fond(?) memories of one acquaintance who accidentally typed an extra slash when cleaning up user files and got a quick lesson in why logging in as root is not a good idea -- especially when it's 3 AM and you are phoning for help on restoring backups.

Regards,
David