12% of ebooks are self-published; most are rubbish, claims editor

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by Soldim

Well, if they'd be any good they would have been contracted by a real publishing house, isn't it?

Most of the authors I read who self publish are already contracted to publishers, they just decide to self publish the odd book, sometimes its even free stories for the readers.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I would (and do) say that . But you're right; dialogue should of course be an accurate reflection of the sort of person speaking.

A reflection. But not overdone and quite possibly not even entirely realistic. Too much realism with a dialect or accent can make text tedious to read. A writer has to be clever about it. I just set aside a book (not an indie work...wait...let me think. No, it is indie.) Anyway, to show that the guy was from the south, when he spoke it was constantly, "runnin' walkin' talkin'" Most gerunds suffered from a silent "g" syndrome. Here and there would have been okay and using y'all is standard in southern text...but it began to drive me nuts. It was especially annoying when the main female started doing it (and she wasn't from the south. This is what I mean about making sure all your characters have a unique voice and stick with it.)

You have to slide those personalities in there and yet remain readable. Another author I read (not indie) had so many curse words in there, it was entirely too realistic. And hard to read because you could afford to skip every 3rd word since really an f-bomb isn't all that descriptive of a situation, yet it is used like a "covers everything adjective." And if overused, as many people do, it's in the way. It's like advertising signs that you "see" on the side of highways. But you don't read them. So you don't know what they say, but you know they are there. Too much reality can be just as bad as none.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Too much realism with a dialect or accent can make text tedious to read. A writer has to be clever about it. I just set aside a book (not an indie work...wait...let me think. No, it is indie.) Anyway, to show that the guy was from the south, when he spoke it was constantly, "runnin' walkin' talkin'" Most gerunds suffered from a silent "g" syndrome. Here and there would have been okay and using y'all is standard in southern text...but it began to drive me nuts. It was especially annoying when the main female started doing it (and she wasn't from the south. This is what I mean about making sure all your characters have a unique voice and stick with it.)

Couldn't agree more. Nothing will make me throw a book across the room (OK, figuratively if it's an ereader) quicker than phonetic representations of accents that go on forever. Especially a dreaded apostropocalypse. I can do accents/dialects in my head if you (the author) just give me a few hints that I should.

[HarryT]

Totally agree. Phonetic renderings of accents can be VERY tedious if carried to extremes.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

A reflection. But not overdone and quite possibly not even entirely realistic. Too much realism with a dialect or accent can make text tedious to read.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Totally agree. Phonetic renderings of accents can be VERY tedious if carried to extremes.

Whoa... don't remind me. I've reread David Eddings' The Elenium and The Tamuli not long ago. I really hated to read the "dialect" Caalador uses. Whenever Eddings wrote that Caalador lapsed into his dialect, he would actually write it out like that for the entire dialog.

OK, once or twice would be fine, so you know about it, and how it would sound, but at some point it just gets annoying. Actually, even some of the characters in the book itself got annoyed by it

[HarryT]

Can you imagine what Dutch dialogue would look like if it were to be written out phonetically the way that people speak it?

[Katsunami]

No, I can't... I can write and understand Japanese phonetically in Hiragana, Katakana and Roman (very basic; my level would be that of a four year old Japanese child; maybe even three), but I can't imagine how I'd write Dutch phonetically. I also can't imagine that for English. Probably it's because my native language is Dutch, and I'm quite proficient in English (or so I like to think ).

I wonder. Could you do me a favour and write an example? Here's a video in Dutch:

http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl/afleveringen/1350511

This is the first sentence by the reporter, written in correct Dutch:

"Goedenavond. De Grote Markt hier in Haarlem is vandaag het eindpunt van de toer door Friesland en Noord-Holland; twee provincies die van elkaar gescheiden zijn door het Ijsselmeer en de Waddenzee en dus ging een deel van de route over water."

I'm wondering how you'd write it, if you wrote it down phonetically.

This is what the reporter said: "De Grote Markt in Haarlem is the end point of today's trip through Friesland and Noord-Holland; two provinces seperated from one another by the Ijsselmeer and the Waddenzee, and therefore, a part of the trip was done by water.

I don't know if "Part of the trip was done by water" is a correct English expression. Normally, I would have used "was done by boat", or something like that, but I tried to stay as close as possible to the Dutch sentence.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you imagine what Dutch dialogue would look like if it were to be written out phonetically the way that people speak it?

Might be more readable than the second-to-last example I saw. That one had a few gems that were ten syllables long.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Soldim

Well, if they'd be any good they would have been contracted by a real publishing house, isn't it?

That's simply not true. Publishing houses consider many things before deciding whether to sign an author. A major focus is on the market. For example, two excellent authors who should be signed by a major publisher -- Shayne Parkinson and Vicki Tyley -- lose points because they are from New Zealand and Australia. If only excellent writing was the criterion, they would have been signed long ago.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by rhadin

That's simply not true. Publishing houses consider many things before deciding whether to sign an author. A major focus is on the market. For example, two excellent authors who should be signed by a major publisher -- Shayne Parkinson and Vicki Tyley -- lose points because they are from New Zealand and Australia. If only excellent writing was the criterion, they would have been signed long ago.

I was going to say that, but figured it was a moot point. Several editors over the years have said that there is simply too much good stuff to publish it all. And they don't have to sort the slush pile anymore because agents do it for them. Even without agents they have authors who can write and publish faster than they are "allowed" to put out books.

Ilona Andrews had the Kate Daniels written through book 7 when the publisher was still on book 3. The team started writing a different series that had to wait some time before being published. She's with a major publisher.

I could list several authors who have series or books written other than the ones currently under contract, but have been told by their publishers they only want the current series. This is a major reason we will continue to see these authors go it alone. Of course, some don't want the hassle. It is a lot of work and some authors are just not going to go to the trouble to hire editors and artists.

Same with backlist. I've contacted at least two favorite authors and encouraged them to publish their out-of-print backlist. No dice. No time, no desire to revisit the books, etc.

[Katsunami]

Maybe it's wrong, but I've always wondered about the quality of authors that can write faster than I can read. I've mentioned R.A. Salvatore a few times. He is one of the best Forgotten Realms writers ever, especially when looking at his earliest Drizzt books. However, after he got "settled" as a great author, he's writing like mad; sometimes up to 5-6 books a year, and not only Drizzt novels, but in completely different universes too. That can't be good.

IMHO, it's impossible, for anyone, even experienced authors, to write a 300 page book every 8-10 weeks, and make them all good and interesting reads. I've always suspected that there is more than one person writing under the name R.A. Salvatore, just because it's an established name.

Now his son Geno is also writing "since a short time" according to Salvatore, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's ever revealed that he has been writing books for 10 years already, under his father's name.

edit: I have most of Salvatore's books in paper, and/or eBooks, but I've only read the first 10 Drizzt books and Cleric Quintet up until now. I have all the rest just to keep the series complete, but they're on my TBR pile. I wonder how good they are...

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Several editors over the years have said that there is simply too much good stuff to publish it all.

Thankfully, the world of ideas no longer depends on what traditional publishers choose to publish.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Maybe it's wrong, but I've always wondered about the quality of authors that can write faster than I can read. I've mentioned R.A. Salvatore a few times. He is one of the best Forgotten Realms writers ever, especially when looking at his earliest Drizzt books. However, after he got "settled" as a great author, he's writing like mad; sometimes up to 5-6 books a year, and not only Drizzt novels, but in completely different universes too. That can't be good.

IMHO, it's impossible, for anyone, even experienced authors, to write a 300 page book every 8-10 weeks, and make them all good and interesting reads. I've always suspected that there is more than one person writing under the name R.A. Salvatore, just because it's an established name.

Now his son Geno is also writing "since a short time" according to Salvatore, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's ever revealed that he has been writing books for 10 years already, under his father's name.

There are definitely authors who seem to have "help." Patterson is one that is often batted around. However, J.D. Robb aka Nora Roberts writes several books a year and no one has ever suggested she has help. Originally publishers put her J.D. Robb books out without telling anyone they were written by Nora Roberts. Then when they took off, suddenly it was okay to tie the two together.

I don't write fast. I know authors who do. I'm GLAD some writers can write fast.

[BillSmithBooks]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Sturgeon's Law Rules.
And it was composed at the height of the gatekeepers' power. (And likely in response to it.)

The whole thing is eminently shrug-worthy.

"90% of everything is crap."
If you start from there you'll never be disappointed and ocassionaly be surprised and delighted.

Sturgeon was an optimist.

Fortunately, lots of people disagree on what is crap and what is awesome.

[BeccaPrice]

My husband once talked to someone who runs an "adult" book store. The guy told Chris that only 10% of what is in there would appeal to any given customer, who would consider the rest crap, but that a *something* in his store would appeal to *somebody*. who would also consider the rest of the 90% that didn't appeal to him as crap.