IF you could design the user interface for the next Kobo Firmware

[Little_bear]

I would like to be able assign tags to books and to import the tags from Calibre.

I want to be able to sort the books by series - I don't think that title and author is enough, especially if you read (as I do) a lot of books that are part of a series. To be able to see the series name under each book is nice, but being able to sort by it It would be great.

I want to be able to choose what my Touch displays on "My home" screen. I never connect through Wi-fi and I never buy books directly from Touch. Therefore, I want to be able to choose "My home" screen to display features that are useful for me and make my reading experience better.

[Ken Maltby]

Searching pretty much requires that you have a specific thing you are looking for.

Browsing is similar to searching but with no specific object as your goal.

If I always know the next book I wish to read, then all I would need is a search
tool.

Most of the time I have no particular book in mind and want to browse through
defined listings of books, to see what might meet my needs and mood. Being
able to browse through a listing of all the "Mystery" ebooks I have on hand, or
all the "SciFi", or all the "Fantasy", or all the "PolyTicks", or all the "Comedy",
or all the ebooks in any of over 50 catagories, is not something that you can
replace with a search function.

Luck;
Ken

[GeoffR]

Originally Posted by jackastor

I definitely like the tiled interface. But as a compromise why allow us to choose the style? Tiled or Kick it Old Style...

Yep, we already have two library listing styles (small covers and details, large covers no details), two sleep screen styles, two different epub readers. Two home screen styles should not be a problem.

[jackastor]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

I purchased a reading device from Kobo, I gave them money so
that I could own the reading device. I now consider it mine,
I paid for it. It is mine to use as I wish.

Kobo's firmware does everything it can to negate my
ownership and make the operation of the device dependent
upon Kobo. They are intent on retaining control over the
device through a forced "synchronization". They have
convinced most owners that this is to provide the "owners"
with a useful service, just like with most "connected"
services, the service providers (in this case Kobo) gather
and maintain information on the users of the service,
for marketing and other purposes. They claim that this
tracking of your use of the device is to provide you with
interesting statistics for your use, of your use, and to
better tailor Kobo's ebook offerings to match your needs.

I see no problem with telling Kobo to keep their hands off
the device I paid good money for, it is mine - not theirs
anymore. They may consider it their marketing tool, but I
own it and intend to sever as much of their connection to
my property as I can.

I reject the argument that consumers must accept the after
purchase control of the device, as a part of a "Terms of
Use", or the idea that purchasing the device means you
are obligated to support Kobo's marketing efforts.

The position of some, in forums like this, that "You
can't complain or argue against Kobo's maintaining control
of the device, because you could have just not purchased
the device from Kobo", is also one that I reject.

I fully intend to find a way to remove Kobo's ability to
decide what will be displayed on "my" home screen, or
otherwise use the forced synchronization process to gain
control of my device. I will continue to call for a
change to the firmware, to allow the disabling of
"features" I find intrusive. I will continue to search
for an alternative firmware to free my device.

If this offends some diehard Kobo supporters, too bad.
You do what you want with your device and I'll do as I
wish with mine.

Luck;
Ken

Well it is an open system. One could always do what android users do and unbloat the crap and add their own flair on it.

Usually works better than the original unless the hardware changes.

regards

JAck

[mr_nihilism]

Nothing new to contribute, but if there is a chance the right people at Kobo are reading, I'd just like to echo a couple of suggestions:

Just polish up and fix the current firmware.

An option for full screen mode or something very close to it. It seems many people would like to optimize their reading space, especially Aura owners.

Do I really need my device to display that it's sleeping or powered off? Yeah, I know that already, Kobo. It would look so much nicer if having the book cover uncluttered with unnecessary info. when not in use.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by theonna

DNSB
Here, I made a page with several fonts, where line height is .8
As you can see all are readable and I think as a minimum line height goes it is a good starting point.
As far as search versus file manager goes- file manager is far easier and faster to implement for users with different language books, than search, it is a work around, but I do not expect to have search in languages that are not supported yet to be available any time soon. Also file manager is something that I can do work once and then use it on many devices if I need to, shelves must be recreated and each device has them their way. Even without need for different languages, I'd always take file manager over shelves.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. In several of your examples, the . over the j in jumped contacts the descender in the j above it which to me, is unacceptable. In others, it is too close to contact for me to be comfortable reading for any length of time.

As for recreating shelves, I don't use any shelves. I use search against the database to locate files in a very simple directory structure on the ereader. For me, that removes any need for shelves. My original attempts at using shelves ended with books on 3 or 4 shelves and several hundred shelves which was a pain to maintain and even more of a pain to restore after a factory reset. So now I just use the search function. If I could specify the search criteria such as author, title, etc., it would be an improvement but that would add considerably to the complexity of the search interface -- a build your own SQL query interface is pretty unlikely to be delivered.

Unlike you, most of my books use a Latin alphabet and for those few that are not, I use Latin characters for the metadata so search works for me. A pain in some cases but since I'm running most of the ebooks I get through Sigil in any event, not that much added trouble.

Regards,
David

[Barty]

IMO, they need to a) redesign the reading screen so they do not have huge space wasted on top and bottom ; b) total user control of margin and line line spacing ; c) fix HTML/ rendering annoyances, like the widow/orphan bug.

Until they get these right, nothing else matters to me and I will not buy a kobo.

[theonna]

DNSBI don't see that we have to disagree at all.
It is only if you use an approach of either one or another, I think we should strive for both. I like smaller margins, smaller line height- let me use settings at their minimum- you can use them at your convenience.
You like using search, I like it too. You ended up not even using shelves. I like browsing by my authors, the thing is that neither search, nor shelves give me the opportunity to do-is to have subsets, multi level organization. File manager gives that opportunity- why not have a choice.
Database is a programming issue and programming decision, it is huge, reader takes long to generate it and update it, so- we need to be able to choose when and how we deal with it- when we have time overnight- plug it in and let it chug along, when we travel- put a card in, have file manager to see our structured files and be ready in minutes. We should not choose either your way or mine, we should have both.
My control over my reader screen is important to me- let me choose what and when appears there, you'd like to see suggestions, live updates - fine, have it. Those choices are not something that is impossible, it is quite possible and achievable right now, why not insist that devices we buy with our own money give us those choices?

[jackastor]

Originally Posted by theonna

DNSBI don't see that we have to disagree at all.
It is only if you use an approach of either one or another, I think we should strive for both. I like smaller margins, smaller line height- let me use settings at their minimum- you can use them at your convenience.
You like using search, I like it too. You ended up not even using shelves. I like browsing by my authors, the thing is that neither search, nor shelves give me the opportunity to do-is to have subsets, multi level organization. File manager gives that opportunity- why not have a choice.
Database is a programming issue and programming decision, it is huge, reader takes long to generate it and update it, so- we need to be able to choose when and how we deal with it- when we have time overnight- plug it in and let it chug along, when we travel- put a card in, have file manager to see our structured files and be ready in minutes. We should not choose either your way or mine, we should have both.
My control over my reader screen is important to me- let me choose what and when appears there, you'd like to see suggestions, live updates - fine, have it. Those choices are not something that is impossible, it is quite possible and achievable right now, why not insist that devices we buy with our own money give us those choices?

I think I agree with your assessment Theonna, There is no reason why we cannot have a choice. That way both yourself and DNSB can be on the same page or not because you can configure for either option. The main thing we all seem to be striving for is flexibility! And why not?, We all need to be in control of a some small things in life and setting our reading prefs is a small thing to ask but a huge thing to the world of KOBO. Making the reader interface flexible does several things. 1) guarantees loyal user base
2)furthers the enjoyment of the user whilst reading, 3) helps to organize the books or menu in a more logical intuitive way that customizes our reading experience on an unprecedented personal level... Again ramping up loyalty by simple enjoyment.

regards

JAck

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by jackastor

I think I agree with your assessment Theonna, There is no reason why we cannot have a choice. That way both yourself and DNSB can be on the same page or not because you can configure for either option. The main thing we all seem to be striving for is flexibility! And why not?, We all need to be in control of a some small things in life and setting our reading prefs is a small thing to ask but a huge thing to the world of KOBO. Making the reader interface flexible does several things. 1) guarantees loyal user base
2)furthers the enjoyment of the user whilst reading, 3) helps to organize the books or menu in a more logical intuitive way that customizes our reading experience on an unprecedented personal level... Again ramping up loyalty by simple enjoyment.

regards

JAck

I think Kobo has been once again shooting themselves in the foot, by adding things and taking them away in a random manner.

I have never seen such a controversy over the Sony or Amazon use of screen space and menus in the Sony and Kindle forums.

The Sony has had a menu bar on the bottom, not disimiliar to the Kobo one, and nobody seemed to take offense at it.

The Kindle had a menu bar, then they hid it, had location numbers and changed to page numbers etc. which caused some dsicontent, but nothing like the sheer outrage being generated by Kobo.

Of course were and are far more robust and functional in terms of basic reading and navigation although sorting on the kindle three at least was a tad bizarre to me (most kindle owners seemed fine with it).

I am all for choice, but I think I value reliabilty and stabilty more. Sure give those who want features the features, I won't be upset by there presence. Just don't keep randomly deleting basic functions to add those features. Add another screen or menu level, like the other software based systems.

When I bought my Mini it had a functional back button. Now it doesn't although I have glimpsed it twice before it was covered up by the menu bar.

Surely if they were going to delete the back button they should have deleted the code that displayed it instead of just displaying it and displaying something else on top of it. This seems to be very sloppy programming practice, that should not be condoned by Kobo management.

Then they take away the ability to have a black menu bar, which I have never used, but many like and no one seems to know why. It is like a crap shoot, almost Pavlovian in the sequence of good ereader, bad ereader, better in one function ereader one day , and worse than ever ereader the next (the book I was reading opened 12 page turns back today the forth time opening it after upgrading to 2.61, I was sort of used to 1-4 page turns, and I do not have any margins).

Then there is the kepub epub thing. What do they hope to gain by that I wonder. Saving some money on ADE. I don't think so as they must pay it anyway if they are selling access to both formats together.

Oh well sorry for ranting like a lunatic and I hope I haven't thrown the thread more off topic than it already was. Good idea for a thread BTW.

Helen

[jackastor]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I think Kobo has been once again shooting themselves in the foot, by adding things and taking them away in a random manner.

I have never seen such a controversy over the Sony or Amazon use of screen space and menus in the Sony and Kindle forums.

The Sony has had a menu bar on the bottom, not disimiliar to the Kobo one, and nobody seemed to take offense at it.

The Kindle had a menu bar, then they hid it, had location numbers and changed to page numbers etc. which caused some dsicontent, but nothing like the sheer outrage being generated by Kobo.

Of course were and are far more robust and functional in terms of basic reading and navigation although sorting on the kindle three at least was a tad bizarre to me (most kindle owners seemed fine with it).

I am all for choice, but I think I value reliabilty and stabilty more. Sure give those who want features the features, I won't be upset by there presence. Just don't keep randomly deleting basic functions to add those features. Add another screen or menu level, like the other software based systems.

When I bought my Mini it had a functional back button. Now it doesn't although I have glimpsed it twice before it was covered up by the menu bar.

Surely if they were going to delete the back button they should have deleted the code that displayed it instead of just displaying it and displaying something else on top of it. This seems to be very sloppy programming practice, that should not be condoned by Kobo management.

Then they take away the ability to have a black menu bar, which I have never used, but many like and no one seems to know why. It is like a crap shoot, almost Pavlovian in the sequence of good ereader, bad ereader, better in one function ereader one day , and worse than ever ereader the next (the book I was reading opened 12 page turns back today the forth time opening it after upgrading to 2.61, I was sort of used to 1-4 page turns, and I do not have any margins).

Then there is the kepub epub thing. What do they hope to gain by that I wonder. Saving some money on ADE. I don't think so as they must pay it anyway if they are selling access to both formats together.

Oh well sorry for ranting like a lunatic and I hope I haven't thrown the thread more off topic than it already was. Good idea for a thread BTW.

Helen

Rant rant rant rant rant away if you must, That's the purpose of this thread voice your opinions frustrations and more. Hopefully some good ideas will come from this thread and who knows maybe the kobo gods will hear.... one always hopes.


Regards

Jack

[TechniSol]

Ken,

Being able to browse through a listing of all the "Mystery" ebooks I have on hand, or all the "SciFi", or all the "Fantasy", or all the "PolyTicks", or all the "Comedy", or all the ebooks in any of over 50 catagories, is not something that you can replace with a search function.

No, but if you use Calibre you could easily set up the shelves function, edit the metadata in bulk to add a "Mystery" tag to all of your mysteries merely by selecting them all together and voila. You can also add more than one tag per book and have the titles appear on multiple shelves if you would like multiple genre tags per title, or shelves based on "Author" as well as genre shelves...

Granted, this will not speed up the firmware in it's glacial processing of new books. I cannot fathom why it is so slow unless there is some very sloppy database programming or far too much data is being unnecessarily stored and manipulated per title -like moving data around rather than pointers, etc.

PS. Could you stop using hard breaks in your posts? The nearly blank lines with only a few words following each post line are driving me nuts like a badly formatted ebook.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by davidfor

That is a pretty limited example. It is readable, but looks strange because of all the repeated text. More importantly, nowhere in it do the risers and descenders meet or even come close.

Try the attached ePub. It sets a different line height for the first few paragraphs from 0.7 to 1.3. Looking at it on either my Glo or Touch, none of the fonts would give me a comfortable read under 1.0. And I think I would choose 1.1 for most fonts.

Actually, in theonna's .pdf example, the dot on the j in jumped overlapped with the descender on the j in several of his examples.

Regards,
David

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Ken,



No, but if you use Calibre you could easily set up the shelves function, edit the metadata in bulk to add a "Mystery" tag to all of your mysteries merely by selecting them all together and voila. You can also add more than one tag per book and have the titles appear on multiple shelves if you would like multiple genre tags per title, or shelves based on "Author" as well as genre shelves...

Granted, this will not speed up the firmware in it's glacial processing of new books. I cannot fathom why it is so slow unless there is some very sloppy database programming or far too much data is being unnecessarily stored and manipulated per title -like moving data around rather than pointers, etc.

PS. Could you stop using hard breaks in your posts? The nearly blank lines with one word following each post line are driving me nuts.

What is this glacial processing of new books.you speak of. I only have the glacial opening of the shelves problem.

Aura process 1000 new books pretty fast, actually faster than My Sony, one of the few things it does better. Mini maybe a minute or two, still faster than the Sony. Is this glacial processing of new books a new thing?

Helen

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Barty

IMO, they need to a) redesign the reading screen so they do not have huge space wasted on top and bottom ; b) total user control of margin and line line spacing ; c) fix HTML/ rendering annoyances, like the widow/orphan bug.

Until they get these right, nothing else matters to me and I will not buy a kobo.

There is very little wasted space at the top of the screen with the current firmware. The space at the bottom has been part of the Kobo ereader screen since the original Kobo. Kepubs still have the wide top margin as they have always had.

Line and margin spacing? Give the user total control and take it away from the ebook publishers who have an idea (vague and misdirected though it might be) as to what they want the ebook to look like.

Widows and orphans are not a bug. They were a part of the CSS 2 specification and Adobe was simply following that standard when they included widow/orphan support with a default of 2. And please note that Adobe not Kobo supply the Adobe Reader Mobile SDK.

To quote from "Cascading Style Sheets Level 2 Revision 1 (CSS 2.1) Specification":

13.3.2 Breaks inside elements: 'orphans', 'widows'

'orphans'
    Value:  	<integer> | inherit
    Initial:  	2
    Applies to:  	block container elements
    Inherited:  	yes
    Percentages:  	N/A
    Media:  	visual, paged
    Computed value:  	as specified

'widows'
    Value:  	<integer> | inherit
    Initial:  	2
    Applies to:  	block container elements
    Inherited:  	yes
    Percentages:  	N/A
    Media:  	visual, paged
    Computed value:  	as specified

The 'orphans' property specifies the minimum number of lines in a block container that must be left at the bottom of a page. The 'widows' property specifies the minimum number of lines in a block container that must be left at the top of a page. Examples of how they are used to control page breaks are given below.

Only positive values are allowed.

Regards,
David