The Epic Battle Between Apple & Google Is All But Over - Who Won?

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by Sregener

Second problem, if I was still running my 2005 Windows laptop, I would have to have done at least 8 complete system wipes and reinstalls of the OS in that time, either to fix corrupt registry problems or to "restore" the speed of the machine back to its original.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I've never had to do the above. I've got a 2005 desktop (AMD Sempron, WinXP, 3GB RAM) that still works pretty great. Even Blu-ray rips and hi-def Flash videos work fine after a GPU upgrade. Heck, I've got a couple of 1st gen Atom machines running Windows 7 that work just fine for office productivity and most web surfing (tends to choke on Flash HD).

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by ApK

I can't fault any individual or company for trying to find all legal means to reduce their tax burden. I'd rather see your ire redirected at our Congress to push for tax code reform to reduce both the need and opportunity to do stuff like that.

Companies could then move to actually have much more of their operations overseas (rather than just have the operations overseas on paper, as with Apple).

The law is a blunt and imperfect instrument to obtain moral behavior. Some of it has to come from feelings of shame and guilt. I don't think Steve Jobs would have felt shame from this week's revelations, but hopefully the current crowd running the company will.

My impression is that Apple is worse on this than the norm. Originally from the New York Times:

. . . the findings about Apple were remarkable both for the enormous amount of money involved and the audaciousness of the company’s assertion that its subsidiaries are beyond the reach of any taxing authority.

“There is a technical term economists like to use for behavior like this,” said Edward Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles and a former staff director at the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation. “Unbelievable chutzpah.”

Maybe the problem is that in a world of multi-national companies, with patriotism to the headquarters country unlikely to shape corporate behavior, corporate income tax won't work. Then we might as well end corporate income tax and make all the other taxes higher to compensate. In the end, isn't it really customers who are paying the corporate income tax? In defense for having just made a highly political statement: I'm far from sure I'm correct.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

In the end, isn't it really customers who are paying the corporate income tax?

Exactly, this is why corporate income tax has never made any sense to me. But isn't it great rhetoric for rousing the rabble?

Spoiler:

THOSE EVIL RICH CORPORATIONS! STICK IT TO THEM! THEY”VE GOT ALL THE MONEY AFTER ALL!

[wodin]

As he heads for the sandbox whith his tail between his legs.

[MrDoug]

So.. my opinion to stop tax dodgers is a FLAT TAX.. PERIOD.. 17% or whatever across the board.. if you make 100K the tax is 17K etc.. or if Apple earns 100 billion the tax is 17 billion.. how hard is that? no deductions etc.. but the IRS people will bitch because it will be so simple the IRS will have to lay off thousands of employee's.. which will save the government Billions.. not to mention the cries about the entitlements.. don't get me started.. LOL.. the laid off IRS employees will say "well I will lose my job".. I would say you should have thought about that before you took the job.. dah.. If I buy a new business and it goes broke who do I have to Blame..? obviously myself..
Oh well.. nothing is for sure but "Death and Taxes".. done with my ranting for a while.. the IRS needs a complete overhaul..
Doug

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by MattW

That's a very low standard you have there. I expect a bit more from articles like these. Your mileage may vary.

That was a joke, Matt. I tend not to use emoticons when the punchline is already winking and pointing to its own crotch.

[wizwor]

So, this is a tax forum these days? Cool. Politicians pretend to be concerned about consumption, landfills, progressive treatment of income, and the underground economy. I really am. I think all taxes should be replaced with a progressive sales tax. Grow, make, and fix things tax free but pay when you buy something someone else grew or made.

This would lead to a greener planet and handier people. Gardens and darning would become popular again. Since selling used stuff would also be taxed, this would lead to more charitable giving.

Of course, there would be no need for the IRS and the whole tax preparation/dodge industry. Those people could do something valuable.

[bullet]

Originally Posted by ApK

I can't fault any individual or company for trying to find all legal means to reduce their tax burden. I'd rather see your ire redirected at our Congress to push for tax code reform to reduce both the need and opportunity to do stuff like that.

Please wait for the investigations to be concluded. Congress does not walk and chew gum concurrently. Vote against the incumbents.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by MrDoug

So.. my opinion to stop tax dodgers is a FLAT TAX.. PERIOD.. 17% or whatever across the board.. if you make 100K the tax is 17K etc.. or if Apple earns 100 billion the tax is 17 billion.. how hard is that?

Who does this $17 billion get divided between? Every country Apple sells in? Or is it every country they have design shops in? Or factories in? Or is it just the US because it should go by where the company was founded? But the latter is still complex because a number of companies Apple has merged with were founded outside the US. So do all the founding countries get a cut?

My point is -- it is hard. Not impossible, but there's a reason, other than corruption, why tax laws are long and it take lawyers and courts to work out the meaning of the laws.

Originally Posted by wizwor

I think all taxes should be replaced with a progressive sales tax.

Hmm. So do eInk readers get a lower tax rate than tablets? Sounds good to me, given that I prefer eInk

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by wizwor

So, this is a tax forum these days? Cool. Politicians pretend to be concerned about consumption, landfills, progressive treatment of income, and the underground economy. I really am. I think all taxes should be replaced with a progressive sales tax. Grow, make, and fix things tax free but pay when you buy something someone else grew or made.

This would lead to a greener planet and handier people. Gardens and darning would become popular again. Since selling used stuff would also be taxed, this would lead to more charitable giving.

Of course, there would be no need for the IRS and the whole tax preparation/dodge industry. Those people could do something valuable.

Couldn't we just go back to living in caves and hunter-gathering... much simpler and I love the idea of gardening in a city location on the tenth floor... of course the entire electronics industry and net would have to go, far too wasteful... Why is cutting everything back the only "green" answer, why not move forward and work on some high tech solutions to the "green" problems? Sorry, forgot, that isn't "natural."

[MrDoug]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Who does this $17 billion get divided between? Every country Apple sells in? Or is it every country they have design shops in? Or factories in? Or is it just the US because it should go by where the company was founded? But the latter is still complex because a number of companies Apple has merged with were founded outside the US. So do all the founding countries get a cut?

My point is -- it is hard. Not impossible, but there's a reason, other than corruption, why tax laws are long and it take lawyers and courts to work out the meaning of the laws.



Hmm. So do eInk readers get a lower tax rate than tablets? Sounds good to me, given that I prefer eInk

Yes, complex tax laws we have.. I get very frustrated that a company like Apple has to figure out a way not to pay tax in the U.S. when their Home Office is in Cupertino Calif.. it turns me off to Apple.. I was a big Apple guy. not any longer.. bottom line is none of us will get out of this mess of cheaters and scammers alive.. I will buy Samsung.. at least they can say we are not a U.S. company.. I don't want to buy from Apple ever again.. Tim Cook is a idiot to alienate so many customers..
Doug

[david_e]

Originally Posted by MrDoug

Yes, complex tax laws we have.. I get very frustrated that a company like Apple has to figure out a way not to pay tax in the U.S. when their Home Office is in Cupertino Calif.. it turns me off to Apple.. I was a big Apple guy. not any longer.. bottom line is none of us will get out of this mess of cheaters and scammers alive.. I will buy Samsung.. at least they can say we are not a U.S. company.. I don't want to buy from Apple ever again.. Tim Cook is a idiot to alienate so many customers..
Doug

Samsung? The tax-evading, bribing, price fixing Samsung? Or this Samsung, where the CEO was personally found guilty of tax evasion?

And then there's that billion dollar judgment against them.

[MrDoug]

Originally Posted by david_e

Samsung? The tax-evading, bribing, price fixing Samsung? Or this Samsung, where the CEO was personally found guilty of tax evasion?

And then there's that billion dollar judgment against them.

Ya.. What ya going to do? What a mess.. I do like your Purple hair in your Avatar though.. But obviously flattery will not get me many pts around this place.. Lol. I really am not a bad guy.. Just appear that way..

[wizwor]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

My point is -- it is hard. Not impossible, but there's a reason, other than corruption, why tax laws are long and it take lawyers and courts to work out the meaning of the laws.

The reason tax laws are long and lawyers and courts are involved is because no one wants to pay them and people with the most at stake hire lawyers and judges to help with that.

Besides raising revenue, taxes affect behavior. With so many wringing their hands over over consumption and pollution, the obvious place to collect taxes is at the cash register.

As for what to do with the revenue, ideally, you would want to divide it among worthy projects. In the real world, it is probably easiest to divide it among those adversely impacted my the manufacture and sale of the particular product. That is the beauty of the value-added-tax. Of course, a lot of less tangible value is added where the item is marketed and sold, and things get confusing when things are sold at a loss, but that is the way to collect and distribute taxes.

[Sregener]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Why is cutting everything back the only "green" answer, why not move forward and work on some high tech solutions to the "green" problems?

Because no matter how green the technology is, the only thing that is truly not harmful to the planet in some way is to not use it at all. Most "green" technologies and solutions exchange one form of environmental damage for another. The next-most green solution is to waste as little as possible.

Light pollution is the low-hanging fruit of green technologies. No one can deny that light shone into the air is almost always wasted (valid exceptions: airports and sporting events) but the average outdoor light fixture sends almost half of its light skyward. And studies have shown that eliminating outdoor lighting in urban environments has a positive impact on crime rates. Other studies have shown the harmful effects on migration that light pollution creates. And the technology necessary to eliminate light pollution (shields that reflect and redirect the light downwards) is over fifty years old. You see how far that has gotten us.

Back to the original tax issue. If you really don't like the fact that Apple only pays taxes to the US for some of its profits, I don't understand going with a foreign company that pays none as a viable alternative.