eReader purgatory

EnigmaticSeraph · 09-11-2008, 12:30 PM

So here's the thing: I've been watching eReaders since about May of this year. I've been biding my time, trying to see what would be best. However, eReaders, as a relatively new technology, have hit that awkward position on the development curve where just enough interest and competition has been established with them as to get similar features and (relatively) steady release announcements, yet they have not matured enough to be so rapidly overtaken by new ones as, say, the CPU or hard drive market. Therefore, things have not gotten "fast" enough that one must simply make a purchase and be happy with it, but things are still too fast for one to keep waiting for "the right reader", as there's always a better one just around the corner.

I've been waiting a while already and do wish to make a purchase... but companies like Netronix, Plastic Logic, and even Sony make scintillating announcements with relatively fuzzy release dates. I'm thinking about going for a Kindle, but the things have been out long enough and the competition has grown enough that I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon soon announced a refurbishing of it or new device altogether (though they've said they won't this year). The main lovely attraction to it is the free wireless (I'm in the US). Highly abusable by those with the determination to abuse/hack at it. Being Linux-based, the hackability factor is promising. Also, though the product's design might be inelegant, it is sturdy and quite functional.

Really, what I'm looking for is a good e-ink based eReader with wireless connectivity (need not be more than 802.11g, as I'm on a campus flooded in it) and, if at all possible, a touchscreen (that might also allow me to write notes). I do NOT need (but don't care if it's there) a download or eBook service of any sort, as I already have many eBooks and pdfs (for conversion) and ways to get them, so any questionable business practices or terms of service do not concern or affect me at all. Other features are, of course, welcome even at a higher price (within justifiable reason), but in general my requirements are relatively minimal.

The MobileRead wiki matrix has helped somewhat, but does not cover the claims and announcements of future eReaders very well. I'd preferably like to get one BEFORE the holiday season (before November would be best). I am, however, reluctant to make such an expensive purchase without at least an alright glimpse into the future and into the market as-is.

So, does anyone have any suggestions? (E-mailing the companies for more information hasn't helped as they give bureaucratic, stock responses.)

kesey · 09-11-2008, 12:48 PM

I recommend you visit Madam Zola, line her palm with silver, gaze into her eyes and plead with her to delve deep into her crystal ball and thence relay the future of electronic readers and items related thereto to you. I understand that the going rate for accurate sooth-saying is $100,000 per 5 minute session.

EnigmaticSeraph · 09-11-2008, 06:25 PM

Given that I find eReaders somewhat expensive, I don't think paying $100,000 is all too appealing to me. Even if it's for the future. Inspirational sarcasm aside, I take it then that at least kesey has no brilliant ideas. I suppose, then, that there isn't really any bit of info someone has that isn't seen on the wiki?

Patricia · 09-11-2008, 06:32 PM

Given the secrecy about what Sony is preparing to announce on 2nd October, they aren't likely to leak it to us in advance (which is a pity).
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29112

PS You seem to be describing a state of limbo rather than purgatory, unless you're atoning for being naughty. If so, please tell us what you did.

daffy4u · 09-11-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnigmaticSeraph

The MobileRead wiki matrix has helped somewhat, but does not cover the claims and announcements of future eReaders very well. I'd preferably like to get one BEFORE the holiday season (before November would be best). I am, however, reluctant to make such an expensive purchase without at least an alright glimpse into the future and into the market as-is.

If you want and e-ink ebook reader and not a tablet PC before the holidays, you're going to have to choose from what is currently available. Sure, there is some great stuff coming (and there always will be) but there are no guarantees of when they will actually hit the streets or what final form they will be in.

BTW, what country are you in as not all ebook readers are available in all countries.

Sorry, I can't be of more help.

EnigmaticSeraph · 09-11-2008, 06:50 PM

@Patricia
It would be limbo except for the state of annoyed arbitration and, as a consequence, lack of eReader. More like Dante's purgatory than one of greater sin. I suppose my sin could be Gluttony... I want to have my cake and eat it too. ^^;

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

If you want and e-ink ebook reader and not a tablet PC before the holidays, you're going to have to choose from what is currently available. Sure, there is some great stuff coming (and there always will be) but there are no guarantees of when they will actually hit the streets or what final form they will be in.

:/ Pity. I does seem that the market is too fresh for companies to commit to such crazy concepts as "release dates". @_@
I'll wait and see what Sony has to say on the 2nd, but I have the distinct feeling that it's either unimpressive or releasing too late, and so I'll have to stick with the Kindle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

BTW, what country are you in as not all ebook readers are available in all countries.

I'm in the US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Sorry, I can't be of more help.

That's perfectly fine. Certainly more helpful than boundless sarcasm.

kesey · 09-11-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnigmaticSeraph

Certainly more helpful than boundless sarcasm.

"I am, however, reluctant to make such an expensive purchase without at least an alright glimpse into the future and into the market as-is."
In the words of the immortal bard "thou spake as it were as thou wouldst take the water of ammonium"

Despite the wisdom of many on these forums, none know what will arrive in the next few weeks, not to mind the next few months. Giving advice based on that sad state seemed somewhat fruitless.

On the other hand, I'm delighted with my Sony Reader. Good luck with whatever you might choose.

igorsk · 09-11-2008, 09:35 PM

Re hackability, all current models of readers run Linux, not just the Kindle.

Elsi · 09-11-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnigmaticSeraph

It does seem that the market is too fresh for companies to commit to such crazy concepts as "release dates". @_@
I'll wait and see what Sony has to say on the 2nd, but I have the distinct feeling that it's either unimpressive or releasing too late, and so I'll have to stick with the Kindle.

Unless Sony or Amazon have just about sold out of the current crop of readers, you're unlikely to have an advance notice of "coming soon". That would guarantee that the existing devices stop selling as people just postpone buying until the new one comes out. It's more likely that with very little advance notice, you just see an announcement of "Now available!"

By the way, I own both a Kindle and a Sony PRS 505. For the most important use -- recreational reading -- there's not much difference. The Kindle has a better store behind it, though the new ePub support on the Sony may make it easier to close that gap. Additionally, I like the ability to highlight and add notes (kind of like writing in the margins of a paper book) when reading on the Kindle. And, the Kindle copies the highlighted text and my notes into a plain .txt file which I can upload to my PC -- making it dead simple to capture quotes for reviews.

RWood · 09-12-2008, 12:35 AM

All we know about the future is reported in these forums. Sometimes we get advance information but then we are under a non-disclosure until a certain date. As far as I know, Sony has not even gone that route yet with their October announcement. Dale is great about collecting all information he finds and placing it in the Wiki, sometimes others get there first with the information. When I want to know something about a reader (even my own) I look in the Wiki first and then do a search of the forums in case there is something that is not there yet. (So far I have found very little that is of value that is not there.)

Fall is the time of the year that many consumer electronic companies release their new models to have something for the holiday sales cycle. Two years in a row Sony has released a reading device in the fall. Almost a year ago Amazon released the Kindle. iRex's iLiad has been around for over 2 years and they recently introduced a dedicated lower cost and reduced feature device. The Gen3 has been around about 6 to 9 months and is still selling well from what I've heard. Beyond that the rest have very limited (if any) distribution in the US. e-ink is, as you said, very new in the market.

Will something happen? Yes. What it will be I do not have a clue. I took the plunge almost two years ago and haven't looked back since. Are there better units on the market than I have? Yes.

Whatever you get will be eclipsed by the next model released. Like cars there is always a newer, better model just around the corner. Its life.

Now the last time I checked the Kindle used Sprint's Whispernet and only the iLiad used the 802 protocall.

I wish you luck in your search. It might help us in giving suggestions to understand your analysis of the currently available units. You stated an initial wish list and then casually say that you expect little from the future and will "stick with the Kindle." The logic of this jump escapes me.

HarryT · 09-12-2008, 03:44 AM

My advice to the original poster would be to buy a device which means your needs now. Sure, there'll probably be something better on the market in six months time, but that's always going to be the case and, in the mean time, you'll have been happily reading for six months. We probably aren't going to see any ridcally new technology in the next six months or year, just refinements on what we already have, larger screens, etc.

There's never a "right time" to buy. carpe diem.

EnigmaticSeraph · 09-12-2008, 12:27 PM

@HarryT
Agreed. Which is why I recognize that there is little point in waiting more than a couple of months.

@RWood
I hadn't noticed the fall trend... I didn't even suspect it, as I wouldn't have thought eReaders as a holiday gift... This is reassuring information (just the kind I was looking for), giving me actual reasons to wait a bit and see what the major players play.

As for my logic jump, I suppose I omitted the details of my choice of the Kindle. Being of a tweaking and CS background, I like to look at devices for what they CAN do versus what they're SUPPOSED to do. The Kindle having FREE pervasive wireless sends up big red flags for me. It can already be used as a rough GPS. It can already browse the web. I would be interested to see it functioning as a modem. Alternate (and more elegant) software for it would also be nice to see (even if I have to make it myself). It also, as Elsi said, has input (however awkward) and so I can make notes (which I do often), whereas the Sony PRS-505 (my second choice) has no such thing. The PRS DOES have PDF reflow, which is one reason I'm willing to hear what Sony has to say this October.

@Elsi
Thank you for your experiences. I'm reassured to know that the note-taking on the Kindle is usable (as it looked pretty clumsy). I'm curious: what in your experience do you prefer the PRS for? How's the PDF reflow? Is there any other comparison between them that you'd like to share?

@igorsk
I meant to say that the combination of features and being Linux-based allows one to do a lot. Sorry.

Patricia · 09-12-2008, 04:52 PM

@ Enigmatic Seraph: re your reservations about the kindle. You could just turn the wireless off when not actually downloading a book or rss feed. This would overcome your privacy concerns to some extent, as well as increasing the kindle's battery life.
If you are seriously concerned then you could just transfer all books and feeds via your computer. Then Big Brother would have a much harder time keeping track of your reading list.

EnigmaticSeraph · 09-12-2008, 06:43 PM

I think you've misinterpreted something... I have no privacy concerns, nor do I have any concerns over the battery life of the Kindle or the integrity or readability of my collection on the Kindle...

yvanleterrible · 09-12-2008, 08:31 PM

One can not really choose a vehicle without trying it and it makes sense.

Some people have tried eink and not liked it although I honestly can not understand why. I still use my trusty prs 500 at least an hour a day and it ages gracefully. Mishaps like one that struck at Alex's are scary but with luck might not happen.

My advice... try one of the current crop in a store somewhere, no need to wait for next year's peaches!

09-11-2008, 12:30 PM	#1
EnigmaticSeraph Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: None (yet)	eReader purgatory So here's the thing: I've been watching eReaders since about May of this year. I've been biding my time, trying to see what would be best. However, eReaders, as a relatively new technology, have hit that awkward position on the development curve where just enough interest and competition has been established with them as to get similar features and (relatively) steady release announcements, yet they have not matured enough to be so rapidly overtaken by new ones as, say, the CPU or hard drive market. Therefore, things have not gotten "fast" enough that one must simply make a purchase and be happy with it, but things are still too fast for one to keep waiting for "the right reader", as there's always a better one just around the corner. I've been waiting a while already and do wish to make a purchase... but companies like Netronix, Plastic Logic, and even Sony make scintillating announcements with relatively fuzzy release dates. I'm thinking about going for a Kindle, but the things have been out long enough and the competition has grown enough that I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon soon announced a refurbishing of it or new device altogether (though they've said they won't this year). The main lovely attraction to it is the free wireless (I'm in the US). Highly abusable by those with the determination to abuse/hack at it. Being Linux-based, the hackability factor is promising. Also, though the product's design might be inelegant, it is sturdy and quite functional. Really, what I'm looking for is a good e-ink based eReader with wireless connectivity (need not be more than 802.11g, as I'm on a campus flooded in it) and, if at all possible, a touchscreen (that might also allow me to write notes). I do NOT need (but don't care if it's there) a download or eBook service of any sort, as I already have many eBooks and pdfs (for conversion) and ways to get them, so any questionable business practices or terms of service do not concern or affect me at all. Other features are, of course, welcome even at a higher price (within justifiable reason), but in general my requirements are relatively minimal. The MobileRead wiki matrix has helped somewhat, but does not cover the claims and announcements of future eReaders very well. I'd preferably like to get one BEFORE the holiday season (before November would be best). I am, however, reluctant to make such an expensive purchase without at least an alright glimpse into the future and into the market as-is. So, does anyone have any suggestions? (E-mailing the companies for more information hasn't helped as they give bureaucratic, stock responses.) Last edited by EnigmaticSeraph; 09-11-2008 at 12:41 PM.

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09-11-2008, 12:48 PM	#2
kesey Enthusiast Posts: 71 Karma: 490394 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cork Device: Kindle Keyboard	I recommend you visit Madam Zola, line her palm with silver, gaze into her eyes and plead with her to delve deep into her crystal ball and thence relay the future of electronic readers and items related thereto to you. I understand that the going rate for accurate sooth-saying is $100,000 per 5 minute session.

09-11-2008, 06:25 PM	#3
EnigmaticSeraph Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: None (yet)	Given that I find eReaders somewhat expensive, I don't think paying $100,000 is all too appealing to me. Even if it's for the future. Inspirational sarcasm aside, I take it then that at least kesey has no brilliant ideas. I suppose, then, that there isn't really any bit of info someone has that isn't seen on the wiki?

09-11-2008, 06:32 PM	#4
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	Given the secrecy about what Sony is preparing to announce on 2nd October, they aren't likely to leak it to us in advance (which is a pity). https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29112 PS You seem to be describing a state of limbo rather than purgatory, unless you're atoning for being naughty. If so, please tell us what you did.

09-11-2008, 09:35 PM	#8
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Re hackability, all current models of readers run Linux, not just the Kindle.

09-12-2008, 12:35 AM	#10
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	All we know about the future is reported in these forums. Sometimes we get advance information but then we are under a non-disclosure until a certain date. As far as I know, Sony has not even gone that route yet with their October announcement. Dale is great about collecting all information he finds and placing it in the Wiki, sometimes others get there first with the information. When I want to know something about a reader (even my own) I look in the Wiki first and then do a search of the forums in case there is something that is not there yet. (So far I have found very little that is of value that is not there.) Fall is the time of the year that many consumer electronic companies release their new models to have something for the holiday sales cycle. Two years in a row Sony has released a reading device in the fall. Almost a year ago Amazon released the Kindle. iRex's iLiad has been around for over 2 years and they recently introduced a dedicated lower cost and reduced feature device. The Gen3 has been around about 6 to 9 months and is still selling well from what I've heard. Beyond that the rest have very limited (if any) distribution in the US. e-ink is, as you said, very new in the market. Will something happen? Yes. What it will be I do not have a clue. I took the plunge almost two years ago and haven't looked back since. Are there better units on the market than I have? Yes. Whatever you get will be eclipsed by the next model released. Like cars there is always a newer, better model just around the corner. Its life. Now the last time I checked the Kindle used Sprint's Whispernet and only the iLiad used the 802 protocall. I wish you luck in your search. It might help us in giving suggestions to understand your analysis of the currently available units. You stated an initial wish list and then casually say that you expect little from the future and will "stick with the Kindle." The logic of this jump escapes me.

09-12-2008, 03:44 AM	#11
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	My advice to the original poster would be to buy a device which means your needs now. Sure, there'll probably be something better on the market in six months time, but that's always going to be the case and, in the mean time, you'll have been happily reading for six months. We probably aren't going to see any ridcally new technology in the next six months or year, just refinements on what we already have, larger screens, etc. There's never a "right time" to buy. carpe diem.

09-12-2008, 12:27 PM	#12
EnigmaticSeraph Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: None (yet)	@HarryT Agreed. Which is why I recognize that there is little point in waiting more than a couple of months. @RWood I hadn't noticed the fall trend... I didn't even suspect it, as I wouldn't have thought eReaders as a holiday gift... This is reassuring information (just the kind I was looking for), giving me actual reasons to wait a bit and see what the major players play. As for my logic jump, I suppose I omitted the details of my choice of the Kindle. Being of a tweaking and CS background, I like to look at devices for what they CAN do versus what they're SUPPOSED to do. The Kindle having FREE pervasive wireless sends up big red flags for me. It can already be used as a rough GPS. It can already browse the web. I would be interested to see it functioning as a modem. Alternate (and more elegant) software for it would also be nice to see (even if I have to make it myself). It also, as Elsi said, has input (however awkward) and so I can make notes (which I do often), whereas the Sony PRS-505 (my second choice) has no such thing. The PRS DOES have PDF reflow, which is one reason I'm willing to hear what Sony has to say this October. @Elsi Thank you for your experiences. I'm reassured to know that the note-taking on the Kindle is usable (as it looked pretty clumsy). I'm curious: what in your experience do you prefer the PRS for? How's the PDF reflow? Is there any other comparison between them that you'd like to share? @igorsk I meant to say that the combination of features and being Linux-based allows one to do a lot. Sorry.

09-12-2008, 04:52 PM	#13
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	@ Enigmatic Seraph: re your reservations about the kindle. You could just turn the wireless off when not actually downloading a book or rss feed. This would overcome your privacy concerns to some extent, as well as increasing the kindle's battery life. If you are seriously concerned then you could just transfer all books and feeds via your computer. Then Big Brother would have a much harder time keeping track of your reading list.

09-12-2008, 06:43 PM	#14
EnigmaticSeraph Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: None (yet)	I think you've misinterpreted something... I have no privacy concerns, nor do I have any concerns over the battery life of the Kindle or the integrity or readability of my collection on the Kindle...

09-12-2008, 08:31 PM	#15
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	One can not really choose a vehicle without trying it and it makes sense. Some people have tried eink and not liked it although I honestly can not understand why. I still use my trusty prs 500 at least an hour a day and it ages gracefully. Mishaps like one that struck at Alex's are scary but with luck might not happen. My advice... try one of the current crop in a store somewhere, no need to wait for next year's peaches!