Would you buy the print or the ebook for the same price?

[crossi]

Originally Posted by BadBilly

I really don't get the "the e-book should be really cheap because there's no paper" argument. The cost to print a book in quantity is small. Maybe a couple of buck each, if that, in the volumes that a major publisher will print for a best-seller.

A couple of dollars/ebook is a significant amount. That amount is approximately how much less I'm willing to pay for the ebook version. The publishers could discount that much and still make the same profit as the paper version. If I particularly want a specific book I might be willing to split the difference with a 1 dollar discount for the ebook and let the publishers collect the extra $1 as gravy.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by crossi

A couple of dollars/ebook is a significant amount. That amount is approximately how much less I'm willing to pay for the ebook version. The publishers could discount that much and still make the same profit as the paper version. If I particularly want a specific book I might be willing to split the difference with a 1 dollar discount for the ebook and let the publishers collect the extra $1 as gravy.

Many businesses have 'gravy'.

A restaurant might charge you the same price for a bottle of pop, a glass of wine or a cup of tea. The bottled pop or wine might cost them 50% of of the selling price, and require significabt storage and shipping, where a tea bag is usually less than 2% of the selling price and requires little storage.

Do we question this and refuse to pay over 25 cents for a pot of tea? Do we get all bent out of shape, worrying that the restaurant may be making more money on tea than on sodas? Maybe some of us do.

Life is to short in my opinion, for all of these niggling comparisons.

I am in favour of paying the lowest price, and shopping around. But often I pay more for convenience or a superior product. A supermarket is generally cheaper than a corner store, but if I want only one item I might go to the corner store because it is closer, or to avoid impulse shopping, or simply because I like the store and want it to stay in business.

For ebooks, I pay the lowest price I can find, assuming I feel I can afford this price. I don't even look at the print price, because I don't want the print book.

Worrying about how much profit a seller makes on an item, would only keep me awake at night and I enjoy sleeping too much for that.

Helen

[jersysman]

If I go to a restaurant and they charge the same for tea over a glass of wine, I think I'm skipping that wine!

[crich70]

Originally Posted by jersysman

If I go to a restaurant and they charge the same for tea over a glass of wine, I think I'm skipping that wine!

And you don't have to worry about becoming intoxicated on tea either. There are some differences between pbooks and ebooks. Even though they degrade over time pbooks are still there a few yrs later and no special equipment is needed to read them. The same can't be said of ebooks. A personalized watermark would serve as well as DRM to catch if someone was misusing an ebook I think. Anyway, above and beyond why DRM is needed to prevent theft there is the problem that when I buy a pbook I know the publisher can't just come to my home and take it back. With DRm'd ebooks I could have books at Amazon today and find tomorrow that they have locked me out if they wished. And there would go all the funds I'd spent on ebooks.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Do we question this and refuse to pay over 25 cents for a pot of tea? Do we get all bent out of shape, worrying that the restaurant may be making more money on tea than on sodas? Maybe some of us do.

In the Netherlands, many people do. They wail "Why should a cup of tea or coffee or a glass of coke cost €2?"

What they often forget is that they're at a restaurant where you can have a dish that's so big that you probably don't need to eat the next day, and it costs you only €12. And I'm not talking about a kilogram of french fries and some burgers, but a decent dinner at a Greek restaurant.

Some restaurants are basically "All you can eat" for €15, giving you the choice of so many dishes that you can't even eat a little bit of everything, but they'll definitely charge €2 for a drink.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by crich70

And you don't have to worry about becoming intoxicated on tea either. There are some differences between pbooks and ebooks. Even though they degrade over time pbooks are still there a few yrs later and no special equipment is needed to read them. The same can't be said of ebooks. A personalized watermark would serve as well as DRM to catch if someone was misusing an ebook I think. Anyway, above and beyond why DRM is needed to prevent theft there is the problem that when I buy a pbook I know the publisher can't just come to my home and take it back. With DRm'd ebooks I could have books at Amazon today and find tomorrow that they have locked me out if they wished. And there would go all the funds I'd spent on ebooks.

I agree so much with the above. That pretty much sums up why I value printed books more than e-books. E-books don't have the permanence and freedom (to meet my personal definitions, anyway) that physical books do. They are simple, uncomplicated, and I still have them.

I love the convenience of e-books from the library, since I don't have to leave my house on a stormy day to get one. I love the plethora of stories I can download from various places. But to me, free as in freedom when it comes to things like books is paramount. There are very few things I will agree to buy and then have the seller track how I'm using the item.

I'll pay full retail price only if I don't have to pretend I own the thing.

[spindlegirl]

In the Netherlands, many people do. They wail "Why should a cup of tea or coffee or a glass of coke cost €2?"

Most of the time what I hear (and agree with) is pricing of concessions at movies. To pay $12 for a popcorn, candy and a soda .... yoiks! But I can divvy up the bag of M&Ms among my companions. Nobody asks me for the receipt afterwards and then sends me to the xray machine to prove that only I ate the candies.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Most of the time what I hear (and agree with) is pricing of concessions at movies. To pay $12 for a popcorn, candy and a soda .... yoiks! But I can divvy up the bag of M&Ms among my companions. Nobody asks me for the receipt afterwards and then sends me to the xray machine to prove that only I ate the candies.

For that eventuality, I have a jacket with some huge pockets. It easily holds a pound of M&M's (more, probably, never tried), a bag of crisps and two cans of soda And yes, you can take your jacket inside. Most movie theaters don't want the responsibility of a wardrobe.

But that's off topic

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

But that's off topic

Maybe off topic for this thread, but for some of the related topics: Is violating the "No outside food or drink" rule analogous to stripping DRM for personal use?

OK, ok...there's other threads for that.....

[CyGuy]

If you can't actually purchase an ebook but only a "license" then it is worth FAR less than the paper equivalent. If it also includes DRM then it is worth less still. My maximum price for any ebook is 50% the price of a new paperback of the same title. But I will only go that high if I really really want the ebook.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Most of the time what I hear (and agree with) is pricing of concessions at movies. To pay $12 for a popcorn, candy and a soda .... yoiks!

Indeed...

Originally Posted by ApK

Maybe off topic for this thread, but for some of the related topics: Is violating the "No outside food or drink" rule analogous to stripping DRM for personal use?

I'm not afraid to pay for stuff, but some prices are just ridiculous.

The movie already costs €12. If it's >1.5 hours, it costs €13.
The parking for 2 hours costs €7.

While the prices are high, a can still live with them. Some money must be made of course. However, here's the ridiculous part.

A can of coke: €3,50 (Supermarket price: €0.30)
Coffee, tea: €2.95
Small bag of crisps (25 gr.): €2.50 (Supermarket price: €2 for 20, or €0.10 a piece)
M&M's: €4 for a small bag, €7.50 for a large bag. I don't know the supermarket prices, but it won't be more than €1.50 or €2 for the large bag or so.

I refuse to pay €11 for a can of soda and a bag of M&M's. That's just abhorrent. Even more so when you realise that the supermarket with its €0.30 and €2 prices (maximum) already is earning money.

If I'm not allowed in with my own, then I won't go in at all. Then they can shove the €13 for the movie too. So yes.... It can be likened to removing DRM from media or content, because if I can't remove the DRM, then I won't buy the media.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by ApK

Maybe off topic for this thread, but for some of the related topics: Is violating the "No outside food or drink" rule analogous to stripping DRM for personal use?

OK, ok...there's other threads for that.....

To funny.
Maybe analogous, maybe not. The number of people who feel that they can bring there own food into a restaurant or pub, use the establishments cutlery, condiments etc, without purchasing so much as a beverage is astounding.

Perhaps the analogy comes in because people feel they are entitled to do what they want and be cheered on for it?

Most strong DRM opponents in this forum, admit to being able to break the DRM. Is the fact that they don't want to break the rule/law etc. the big problem with paying the same price? I can understand that and if indeed they refuse to strip the DRM on moral principals, well good for them.

If they strip the DRM and wail like the Dutch oover the price of coffee, well that might be analogous to me jaywalking (illegal where I live) and standing on a corner wailing because the law made me commit a crime.

Helen

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

To funny.
Maybe analogous, maybe not. The number of people who feel that they can bring there own food into a restaurant or pub, use the establishments cutlery, condiments etc, without purchasing so much as a beverage is astounding.

Perhaps the analogy comes in because people feel they are entitled to do what they want and be cheered on for it?

Nah... bringing food or drinks into a pub or restaurant is something I wouldn't think about. If you do that, then there is no reason anymore to go to said establishment.

Bringing my own M&M's and coke to a movie theather... well... if they'd ask *normal* prices for such things, comparable to what you'd pay in a pub or restaurant, and not twice or sometimes three times as high, then I probably wouldn't bring stuff there either.

Most strong DRM opponents in this forum, admit to being able to break the DRM. Is the fact that they don't want to break the rule/law etc. the big problem with paying the same price? I can understand that and if indeed they refuse to strip the DRM on moral principals, well good for them.

If they strip the DRM and wail like the Dutch oover the price of coffee, well that might be analogous to me jaywalking (illegal where I live) and standing on a corner wailing because the law made me commit a crime.

In my case, I pay for stuff like ebooks, movies and games because it doesn't feel right to me to NOT pay for them. If I can get something the legal way, I will. But I don't accept any restrictions, so I'll rip out any DRM. If I can't, I won't pay.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Maybe analogous, maybe not. The number of people who feel that they can bring there own food into a restaurant or pub, use the establishments cutlery, condiments etc, without purchasing so much as a beverage is astounding.

Helen

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever seen anybody do that. Is it really that common?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever seen anybody do that. Is it really that common?

I've seen it in the somewhat less egregious circumstance of when a person is meeting friends in a restaurant. Sometimes the person has special dietary restrictions and so brings their food with them. Sometimes one member of a group already got some food elsewhere, but wants to socialize while everyone else eats in the restaurant. It'd be nice in the latter case, at least, if the person orders a drink or leaves a decent tip for using the resources.