Giving away or lending an Ebook

stustaff · 09-11-2008, 05:52 AM

I would quite happily send anyone on here a paperback I would otherwise throw away so they could have a read or even give it to a charity so they can sell it.

What happens now Ebooks are introduced to the mix?

Can I send you a legally purchased DRM free ebook to read?
Can I lend it my wife to put on her reader If i purchased it?
Can I put it on disc and give it to a charity shop to resell?
Can I sell a disc with them on at a market stall?

thoughts?

Personally I think all of the above are fine with a paperback and are done all of the time so surely it would be ok to do the same with an Ebook? why not?

HarryT · 09-11-2008, 05:54 AM

Most DRM formats provide a mechanism to share the book with your friends, family, etc. No, you can't re-sell them, generally speaking; this will be specified by the T&C at the store where you buy the book from.

Patricia · 09-11-2008, 05:58 AM

I suppose that one difference is that if you give away a paper book then you no longer have it. But if you give away copies of ebooks then you do still have it.

This could lead to a proliferation of copies, so that the author loses out on royalties. And whilst your family are doubtless honest people, there are others who might put the book on torrent sites.

stustaff · 09-11-2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Most DRM formats provide a mechanism to share the book with your friends, family, etc. No, you can't re-sell them, generally speaking; this will be specified by the T&C at the store where you buy the book from.

Good point but i did say non DRM ebooks and Paper backs also contain the same notice in the fronto of books stating not for hire or resale... yet i dont see the police seizing materials from my local secondhand bookstore.

Patricia the author loses out on the royalties if I lend the paperbook around to 4 or 5 people as I and those people wont purchase it (some reference books I may but not a general novel)
The torrent one is a non issue really for me and not relevant! someone could borrow a pbook from me and put it on a torrent!

acidzebra · 09-11-2008, 06:28 AM

If I can sell my old pbooks, why can't I sell my old ebooks? If I can't sell them, do I own them at all, or am I just renting them? I'm pretty sure I own my paper books, and second-hand bookstores will happily take them.

Cookie Monster · 09-11-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stustaff

Good point but i did say non DRM ebooks and Paper backs also contain the same notice in the fronto of books stating not for hire or resale... yet i dont see the police seizing materials from my local secondhand bookstore.

That's the first sale doctrine. This is where if you acquire an item legally, like a book, you can sell or give it away without permission from the copyright owner to whomever you please

stustaff · 09-11-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookie Monster

That's the first sale doctrine. This is where if you acquire an item legally, like a book, you can sell or give it away without permission from the copyright owner to whomever you please

So I can give away an ebook to whoever i please legally?

dadioflex · 09-11-2008, 07:45 AM

Edit.

Cookie Monster · 09-11-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stustaff

So I can give away an ebook to whoever i please legally?

Software is a grey area. Are EULA or other contracts binding when they say you can't resell? Some courts have said yes and some no.

amgoforth · 09-11-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Most DRM formats provide a mechanism to share the book with your friends, family, etc. No, you can't re-sell them, generally speaking; this will be specified by the T&C at the store where you buy the book from.

He said non DRM!!!

amgoforth · 09-11-2008, 08:49 AM

PLEASE read the whole Question.

JSWolf · 09-11-2008, 09:44 AM

Now to take this one step farther.. let's say I wanted to sell my 505 and I put on content that I will never reread that I legally purchased. Can I sell it with this content on it? I should hope so. Some of it could have DRM and some not. But that should not matter. If the content was legally purchased and I won't be rereading it, then giving it away/selling it should be legal (IMHO).

Format C: · 09-11-2008, 10:11 AM

I look at the whole thing in another way.
When I buy a paper book, I actually own the paper, not the book. In effect I can't rewrite the story, I can't use the characters in another book I write and so on.
When I own the paper, I get an implicit license for a limited use of what's written in the paper (I can read it, but if the ink fades, I lose it and I cannot have another free or warranty covered copy; and I still own the paper).
Being the legal owner of that bunch of paper sheets, I can do what I want with it, even to light a fire.
I'm not the owner of the printed words in it.

The implicit license for the limited use of the book goes with the paper. So, if I lend or resell the paper, the new owner gets the limited license too.

The same applies to e-books. I own the disk where the book is stored, I can sell it, lend it or burn it. But I can't do nothing withe content of the book (not even read it in the device of my choice, in some cases).
So when I buy the e-book, I'm buying the bytes of it, non its content. Actually I'm buyng nothing at all (and I pay a fair price for it!!!!). The e-books, which I don't own, comes with an explicit license for a very limited use (more limited than p-book...).

An e-book is more like a movie theater ticket than a p-book.
The difference is in the fact you can read a book more than once with the same ticket, but sooner or later it will be changed and reders will be charged per page display.

Format C: · 09-11-2008, 10:14 AM

Ah, slightly off-topic: in my country I can't read aloud in a public place the book I bought.

tompe · 09-11-2008, 10:31 AM

You can in most countries legally copy the paper book and then lend the paper book to a friend.

09-11-2008, 05:52 AM	#1
stustaff Wizard Posts: 1,055 Karma: 2110 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Derbyshire UK Device: sony reader PRS505 and 600	Giving away or lending an Ebook I would quite happily send anyone on here a paperback I would otherwise throw away so they could have a read or even give it to a charity so they can sell it. What happens now Ebooks are introduced to the mix? Can I send you a legally purchased DRM free ebook to read? Can I lend it my wife to put on her reader If i purchased it? Can I put it on disc and give it to a charity shop to resell? Can I sell a disc with them on at a market stall? thoughts? Personally I think all of the above are fine with a paperback and are done all of the time so surely it would be ok to do the same with an Ebook? why not?

09-11-2008, 07:45 AM	#8
dadioflex Dyslexic Count Posts: 526 Karma: 5041991 Join Date: Aug 2008 Device: Palm TX, Advent Vega, iPad, iPod Touch, Kindle	Edit. Last edited by dadioflex; 12-16-2010 at 05:25 AM.

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09-11-2008, 05:54 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Most DRM formats provide a mechanism to share the book with your friends, family, etc. No, you can't re-sell them, generally speaking; this will be specified by the T&C at the store where you buy the book from.

09-11-2008, 05:58 AM	#3
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	I suppose that one difference is that if you give away a paper book then you no longer have it. But if you give away copies of ebooks then you do still have it. This could lead to a proliferation of copies, so that the author loses out on royalties. And whilst your family are doubtless honest people, there are others who might put the book on torrent sites.

09-11-2008, 06:28 AM	#5
acidzebra Liseuse Lover Posts: 869 Karma: 1035404 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Netherlands Device: PRS-505	If I can sell my old pbooks, why can't I sell my old ebooks? If I can't sell them, do I own them at all, or am I just renting them? I'm pretty sure I own my paper books, and second-hand bookstores will happily take them.

09-11-2008, 08:49 AM	#11
amgoforth Groupie Posts: 196 Karma: 3142469 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Odessa, Texas Device: 2 Kindles, 2 Nooks, 2 Kobos, Ipad.	PLEASE read the whole Question.

09-11-2008, 09:44 AM	#12
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,784 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Now to take this one step farther.. let's say I wanted to sell my 505 and I put on content that I will never reread that I legally purchased. Can I sell it with this content on it? I should hope so. Some of it could have DRM and some not. But that should not matter. If the content was legally purchased and I won't be rereading it, then giving it away/selling it should be legal (IMHO).

09-11-2008, 10:11 AM	#13
Format C: Guru Posts: 753 Karma: 1496807 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: The Third World Device: iLiad + PRS-505 + Kindle 3	I look at the whole thing in another way. When I buy a paper book, I actually own the paper, not the book. In effect I can't rewrite the story, I can't use the characters in another book I write and so on. When I own the paper, I get an implicit license for a limited use of what's written in the paper (I can read it, but if the ink fades, I lose it and I cannot have another free or warranty covered copy; and I still own the paper). Being the legal owner of that bunch of paper sheets, I can do what I want with it, even to light a fire. I'm not the owner of the printed words in it. The implicit license for the limited use of the book goes with the paper. So, if I lend or resell the paper, the new owner gets the limited license too. The same applies to e-books. I own the disk where the book is stored, I can sell it, lend it or burn it. But I can't do nothing withe content of the book (not even read it in the device of my choice, in some cases). So when I buy the e-book, I'm buying the bytes of it, non its content. Actually I'm buyng nothing at all (and I pay a fair price for it!!!!). The e-books, which I don't own, comes with an explicit license for a very limited use (more limited than p-book...). An e-book is more like a movie theater ticket than a p-book. The difference is in the fact you can read a book more than once with the same ticket, but sooner or later it will be changed and reders will be charged per page display.

09-11-2008, 10:14 AM	#14
Format C: Guru Posts: 753 Karma: 1496807 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: The Third World Device: iLiad + PRS-505 + Kindle 3	Ah, slightly off-topic: in my country I can't read aloud in a public place the book I bought.

09-11-2008, 10:31 AM	#15
tompe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,452 Karma: 7185064 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Linköpng, Sweden Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW	You can in most countries legally copy the paper book and then lend the paper book to a friend.