Social DRM Take 2

pilotbob · 09-10-2008, 02:54 PM

Ok,

As I was reading the Teleread blog I came up with a new idea for "social" DRM. It's more like quiltware type scheme.

This will take two phase attack. The first is to standardize on copyright length for all books to some time frame from the books publication date. This is probably the hard part of this idea.

The second is that ePub and all eBook formats should have a spot for publish date. From the publish date when a reader (device) opens an eBook file for the first time it will calculate the public domain date of the book, example, Publishdate + 40 years. If the current date is 40years or more after the publish date all will continue.

Otherwise a warning will be displayed that the book is a copyrighted work and won't be freely available until <DATE>. If you didn't obtain this ebook legally you should delete it. Then the prompt will ask to Read or Delete with "Delete" as the default. If you say read it will read the book and flag the file in some way so the warning doesn't appear everytime you open the eBook.

I am thinking that alot of people that download eBooks from the net might not know that the book is illegal. While it won't deter someone that doesn't care it will deter the honest people.

Other extensions could be added to ePub, perhaps to indicate if the eBook was donated to the Public Domain or uses some type of "free to copy" license. If this is the case the warning would not be displayed even if the date with not more than 40 years ago.

Thoughts?

BOb

Peadar Ó Guilín · 09-10-2008, 03:19 PM

I like it. Guiltware, very nice

mazzeltjes · 09-10-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peadar Ó Guilín

I like it. Guiltware, very nice

Alas, I don't suffer from guilt

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-10-2008, 04:36 PM

Seems like the only way to make this a "DRM" system is to make your 2 choices "Delete" or "Pay now," no "read on" option until you pay. Otherwise, you just need a bit of text in the front that states the copyright date and the public domain date, don't bother with the buttons, and depend on honest people to delete or pay something--which, we already know, most of them will not bother to do.

I'm not sure if most people are unaware of the legality of e-books before they download them. But once they have the e-book, I don't think they particularly care about "doing the right thing," and I do know that guiltware generally doesn't work without real consequences attached.

JSWolf · 09-10-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peadar Ó Guilín

I like it. Guiltware, very nice

Won't work. Not for me anyway. I'm Jewish. The Jews invented guilt and have it down to a fine art.

JSWolf · 09-10-2008, 04:44 PM

If we have to pay to unlock the eBook to continue reading, I'd just get on the darknet and find a copy. That's not guiltware, that's blackmailware and I will have none of that.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-10-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If we have to pay to unlock the eBook to continue reading, I'd just get on the darknet and find a copy. That's not guiltware, that's blackmailware and I will have none of that.

It's not "blackmailware" if you ask for payment up-front before reading... it's "capitalist-ware." (And saying you'll just swipe a copy from the Darknet isn't helping!)

There are standard rules to follow when selling a product:

#1: Get the money for the product first.
#2: If you plan to ignore rule 1, make sure the customer will regret it if they stiff you.
#3: If you plan to ignore rules 1 and 2... give it up and get a job at McDonald's.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a successful business that doesn't follow these 3 basic rules.

Alisa · 09-10-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Seems like the only way to make this a "DRM" system is to make your 2 choices "Delete" or "Pay now," no "read on" option until you pay.

Of course then we're back to some sort of DRM system because you have to have a way to certify that you paid for this copy of the book for that option to work.

Peadar Ó Guilín · 09-11-2008, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Won't work. Not for me anyway. I'm Jewish. The Jews invented guilt and have it down to a fine art.

Then maybe we should get you working on it.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-11-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

Of course then we're back to some sort of DRM system because you have to have a way to certify that you paid for this copy of the book for that option to work.

True. However, if the DRM essentially existed only to verify the fact that the book was paid for... embedded that fact into the book... then went fully inactive after that, and would only reactivate when a copy was made... that might be a DRM system few people would complain about. (A system like that would work if a personal ID was included on each electronic device you owned, allowing the paid-for book to check that ID, then open.)

I've said before, I don't have a problem with DRM... but I do have a problem with bad DRM. I do believe it is possible to engineer a system that is satisfactory to producer and consumer. If it's not workable, however, leave it out, and just get payment up-front.

Format C: · 09-11-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Ok,

As I was reading the Teleread blog I came up with a new idea for "social" DRM. It's more like quiltware type scheme.

This will take two phase attack. The first is to standardize on copyright length for all books to some time frame from the books publication date. This is probably the hard part of this idea.

The second is that ePub and all eBook formats should have a spot for publish date. From the publish date when a reader (device) opens an eBook file for the first time it will calculate the public domain date of the book, example, Publishdate + 40 years. If the current date is 40years or more after the publish date all will continue.

Otherwise a warning will be displayed that the book is a copyrighted work and won't be freely available until <DATE>. If you didn't obtain this ebook legally you should delete it. Then the prompt will ask to Read or Delete with "Delete" as the default. If you say read it will read the book and flag the file in some way so the warning doesn't appear everytime you open the eBook.

I am thinking that alot of people that download eBooks from the net might not know that the book is illegal. While it won't deter someone that doesn't care it will deter the honest people.

Other extensions could be added to ePub, perhaps to indicate if the eBook was donated to the Public Domain or uses some type of "free to copy" license. If this is the case the warning would not be displayed even if the date with not more than 40 years ago.

Thoughts?

BOb

The "pay for an item" model is not applicable to e-goods at all.
Every system to try to get a per-copy payment is a waste of time. DRM, e-stores, special offers... They're already ages behind the darknets.

Look at it: the reader can have thousands of books more, with better experience, more formats, and often better quality.
To try to fight against it by selling worse products and to force by law people to have it and to pay more is simply stupid.
To sit down and cry "I want my money, I deserve it", it's not better.

Authors and publishers have got to think a really new business model. They've got to add value, to make what they sell better than what can be found in the dark. And most of all they have to realize they'll get less money than they do now.
And I bet they won't agree.

So the last word will be written by weapons, as always.

Format C: · 09-11-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

True. However, if the DRM essentially existed only to verify the fact that the book was paid for... [....]

A receipt or an invoice is enough for that purpose...

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-11-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Format C:

To sit down and cry "I want my money, I deserve it", it's not better.

It's also not better to cry "I want my books, and I deserve to get them free."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Format C:

Authors and publishers have got to think a really new business model. They've got to add value, to make what they sell better than what can be found in the dark. And most of all they have to realize they'll get less money than they do now.

And consumers have to accept a new reality: If good producers feel they will not be compensated for their work, they'll stop producing; and there will be less quality product available on the market. Consumers will also have to accept that most of the remaining product will be of noticeably lesser quality than professionally-produced content.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-11-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Format C:

A receipt or an invoice is enough for that purpose...

Yes, but for an electronic file, which can be copied and disseminated, a way to embed that invoice into the file would be useful.

recycledelectron · 09-11-2008, 12:01 PM

The critical flaw in this is the "delete" button. The user can dang well delete a pirated book if (s)he wants to. Having "delete" as a default will mean the book will be deleted accidentally before the copyright runs out.

The real goal here is to throw our society into another dark age by making it impossible to preserve information.

Take a look at the political coverage on the web. McBama and O'Cain are both using DRM from adobe to keep us from saving any videos of their speeches, so they can lie and claim anything later. They only reason to do that is to make it possible for them to cover up their lies by airbrushing history at a later date.

I can not imagine someone who is that evil, but our whole society seems to not mind.

Andy Out!

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09-10-2008, 02:54 PM	#1
pilotbob Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,832 Karma: 11844413 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampa, FL USA Device: Kindle Touch	Social DRM Take 2 Ok, As I was reading the Teleread blog I came up with a new idea for "social" DRM. It's more like quiltware type scheme. This will take two phase attack. The first is to standardize on copyright length for all books to some time frame from the books publication date. This is probably the hard part of this idea. The second is that ePub and all eBook formats should have a spot for publish date. From the publish date when a reader (device) opens an eBook file for the first time it will calculate the public domain date of the book, example, Publishdate + 40 years. If the current date is 40years or more after the publish date all will continue. Otherwise a warning will be displayed that the book is a copyrighted work and won't be freely available until <DATE>. If you didn't obtain this ebook legally you should delete it. Then the prompt will ask to Read or Delete with "Delete" as the default. If you say read it will read the book and flag the file in some way so the warning doesn't appear everytime you open the eBook. I am thinking that alot of people that download eBooks from the net might not know that the book is illegal. While it won't deter someone that doesn't care it will deter the honest people. Other extensions could be added to ePub, perhaps to indicate if the eBook was donated to the Public Domain or uses some type of "free to copy" license. If this is the case the warning would not be displayed even if the date with not more than 40 years ago. Thoughts? BOb

09-10-2008, 03:19 PM	#2
Peadar Ó Guilín Author of The Inferior Posts: 121 Karma: 200001 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Ireland Device: Sony PRS-505, Kindle 3 (soon...)	I like it. Guiltware, very nice

09-10-2008, 04:36 PM	#4
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Seems like the only way to make this a "DRM" system is to make your 2 choices "Delete" or "Pay now," no "read on" option until you pay. Otherwise, you just need a bit of text in the front that states the copyright date and the public domain date, don't bother with the buttons, and depend on honest people to delete or pay something--which, we already know, most of them will not bother to do. I'm not sure if most people are unaware of the legality of e-books before they download them. But once they have the e-book, I don't think they particularly care about "doing the right thing," and I do know that guiltware generally doesn't work without real consequences attached.

09-10-2008, 04:44 PM	#6
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,206 Karma: 144286760 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	If we have to pay to unlock the eBook to continue reading, I'd just get on the darknet and find a copy. That's not guiltware, that's blackmailware and I will have none of that.

09-11-2008, 12:01 PM	#15
recycledelectron Groupie Posts: 152 Karma: 854 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Lifebook T5010	The critical flaw in this is the "delete" button. The user can dang well delete a pirated book if (s)he wants to. Having "delete" as a default will mean the book will be deleted accidentally before the copyright runs out. The real goal here is to throw our society into another dark age by making it impossible to preserve information. Take a look at the political coverage on the web. McBama and O'Cain are both using DRM from adobe to keep us from saving any videos of their speeches, so they can lie and claim anything later. They only reason to do that is to make it possible for them to cover up their lies by airbrushing history at a later date. I can not imagine someone who is that evil, but our whole society seems to not mind. Andy Out!