KOBO Rocks!!!

[Mikeyboards]

Originally Posted by ewphoenix123

one of the more annoying bugs of the reader, you have to add "widows: 0; orphans: 0" or you sometimes get wasted lines at the bottom.

Assuming that wasn't the current score of a soccer game you were citing , where would one specify those zeroes, etc.? I have not previously had enough interest (or necessity) in getting into the css changes, etc. (or whatever they're called). But now that you mention a way to recoup some of the wasted space I always see on my Kobo Glo, I'm wondering if this is a global change I can make? Or whether, instead, it must be applied to each and every book?

[ewphoenix123]

I add them to
p, body {widows: 0; orphans: 0}
via calibre conversion.

The "p" probably overkill but I was to lazy to try out if it works when it's only in the body, some css characteristics sadly don't work when they are in the body while others don't.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by ewphoenix123

I add them to
p, body {widows: 0; orphans: 0}
via calibre conversion.

The "p" probably overkill but I was to lazy to try out if it works when it's only in the body, some css characteristics sadly don't work when they are in the body while others don't.

Unless your epub has got different widows/orphans settings scattered throughout its css, you should be OK with just

body {widows: 0; orphans: 0}

This will then be inherited at all the lower levels (p, div, ... etc)

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Unless your epub has got different widows/orphans settings scattered throughout its css, you should be OK with just

body {widows: 0; orphans: 0}

I add this to the CSS in Calibre but am curious - does this give you full lines right to the bottom of the screen on every page? I still see some pages with one blank line at the bottom. And I still see the "long paragraph" and "one page break before the last paragraph at the end of random chapters" bug.

To get line spacing of 1.3 instead of 1.0, what would I change on the Look & Feel page in Calibre? Minimum line height = 130%?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ewphoenix123

one of the more annoying bugs of the reader, you have to add "widows: 0; orphans: 0" or you sometimes get wasted lines at the bottom.

I do have widows and orphans both set to 0 in the body CSS style. Could this be another case of lets ignore it in the body style?

In the v1 sample, there is just 1 line left of the paragraph. It would have easily fit on the screen.

I'll try putting the widows and orphans in the p style and post v1 again for another sample look.

[jiminrussell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do have widows and orphans both set to 0 in the body CSS style. Could this be another case of lets ignore it in the body style?

In the v1 sample, there is just 1 line left of the paragraph. It would have easily fit on the screen.

I'll try putting the widows and orphans in the p style and post v1 again for another sample look.

Should have included a picture of the next page without the chapter header as well for V1, the top line is a bit too close to the top of the screen for my likely but everyone's preferences are different. There are also the odd spot where the characters on one line look to touch characters on another line with the line spacing set so low, but doesn't happen that much and doesn't make it difficult to read.

Edit : I went through the whole book and there is one place where you end up with just three lines on a page (p. 25) not sure those three lines could fit on the previous page if widows 0 and orphans 0 settings were working as expected, there is one other place where there are just 4 lines on the page (p. 97) they for sure would not fit on the previous page unless they went over top of the page numbers at the bottom. so at most I think you might save one page turn in the whole book, not sure it would be worth the effort.

The page numbering is also a bit strange, going from page 6 to page 9 and then page 11 etc. There is no page 7, 8 or 10.

[ewphoenix123]

And I still see the "long paragraph" and "one page break before the last paragraph at the end of random chapters" bug.

The "long paragraph" etc. bug should be fixed with those settings. I tested it months ago with problematic books and haven't it experienced it since I added it to my conversion patterns.

I add this to the CSS in Calibre but am curious - does this give you full lines right to the bottom of the screen on every page? I still see some pages with one blank line at the bottom.

You can't claim the full screen space in the original reader app. You have always a wasted space at the bottom that is about as big as the menu bar you get when tapping the screen.

If you want real full screen text, there is a port of the kindlepdfreader in the devforum, which offers it. Sadly it's not based on the newer version which is better suited for touchscreen devices, but it's useable.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do have widows and orphans both set to 0 in the body CSS style. Could this be another case of lets ignore it in the body style?

In the v1 sample, there is just 1 line left of the paragraph. It would have easily fit on the screen.

I'll try putting the widows and orphans in the p style and post v1 again for another sample look.

Quite possible, that's why I add it to <p> aswell, Kobo css interpretation is a bit temperamental/weird at times.

Edit : I went through the whole book and there is one place where you end up with just three lines on a page (p. 25) not sure those three lines could fit on the previous page if you used widows 0 and orphans 0 settings, there is one other place where there are just 4 lines on the page (p. 97) they for sure would not fit on the previous page unless they went over top of the page numbers at the bottom. so at most I think you might save one page turn in the whole book by using widows 0 and orphans 0, not sure it would be worth the effort.

The example is a well formatted book.
If you have one with bad formatting you might end up with the few lines per page bug every 10 pages or so. It happens very rarely and the book must be really screwed up, but it can happen.

The real benefit is for me that you usually get one or two lines text more on the screen with the value set, then otherwise.

Looking at your Screenshot, the empty at the bottom looks rather big compared to my Glo.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

I add this to the CSS in Calibre but am curious - does this give you full lines right to the bottom of the screen on every page? I still see some pages with one blank line at the bottom. And I still see the "long paragraph" and "one page break before the last paragraph at the end of random chapters" bug.

I'm afraid I also get the "Kobo quirks" at some page/chapter ends. It certainly makes an epub better than not doing it, though, because Kobo seems to default to

body {orphans: 3; widows: 3}

if you don't add anything. This is a bit odd as the normal default is 2.

To get line spacing of 1.3 instead of 1.0, what would I change on the Look & Feel page in Calibre? Minimum line height = 130%?

It depends what the particular epub already has in its css file. I think setting Min. line height=130% in calibre Look&Feel means that calibre will make sure that any line height which is <130% will be set to 130% after the conversion and anything greater will be left alone.

I don't use this option myself, I have Min. line height=0% and Line height=0pt
I prefer to selectively delete line-height settings from the css so that I can set it via my various reading devices instead.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do have widows and orphans both set to 0 in the body CSS style. Could this be another case of lets ignore it in the body style?

My Kobo Glo has never ignored it in the body style - at least not on any of the fw versions I've used to date. One can never assume what might happen in future Kobo releases though...

The oddity you pointed out is a fairly typical, but totally unpredictable (at least by me), quirk. So I guess my experience is different from ewphoenix123 in this respect. I know that my epubs are well-formatted but I still get 'one-line gaps' at the end of some pages even when the end of the paragraph will easily fit.

I'll try adding p {widows: 0; orphans: 0} as well but I'm not convinced it will fix anything. I'm quite happy to be wrong.

Edit: I did try it and the results don't look to be any different from just having body {widows: 0; orphans: 0} YMMV

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

To get line spacing of 1.3 instead of 1.0, what would I change on the Look & Feel page in Calibre? Minimum line height = 130%?

It's been said that 1.3 is the minimum line spacing used. So if you have no line-height in the CSS, you'll get 1.3. If you do what I did and add a line-height, you'll be able to get a smaller line height if you want.

[Breid]

Forgive me if I sound curmondgedly, but to someone who is not au fait with altering epub css etc, this thread had deviated from "Kobo Rocks" to "How to Create the Perfect Epub". Fascinating to read but I am not sure if it is in keeping with the original purpose of this thread. If I am wrong in this, I am happy to be corrected.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Breid

Forgive me if I sound curmondgedly, but to someone who is not au fait with altering epub css etc, this thread had deviated from "Kobo Rocks" to "How to Create the Perfect Epub". Fascinating to read but I am not sure if it is in keeping with the original purpose of this thread. If I am wrong in this, I am happy to be corrected.

It's not about making the perfect ePub. It's about asking how things work. It's so we can make/alter eBooks to fit how we like them to be. Kobo does some things differently and I'm just finding out how to do it the Kobo way.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Mostly Math

The pictures come in pairs, the first shows the settings, the second the full page.

Let me know if there are different settings or another ebook you want me to try. This was a sideloaded, drag and drop epub.

S

PS: and now I know how to install fonts WOO HOO!

Thanks. That last picture shows about 50 characters per line, but only 24 lines of text. I assume the font is larger than I use on my Kindle PW. The Kindle displays (with the particular book I'm reading now) 28 lines, and 48 characters per line, but that book defines many different font sizes, one for each part of the book. One that doesn't, and just leaves everything at default (apart from the chapter headings and copyright page maybe), displays 30 lines and 51 characters. That's 6(!) more lines as compared to the Kobo, and the Kindle is 0.8 inch smaller. As said, I assume it's the font size that's set to something bigger than I normally use.

The length of a line in many books is between 60 and 70 characters per line. LaTeX, a much used typesetting system, uses a default of 67 characters per line, as it's considered the "best" line length for reading. The Kindle can do it, but then the fonts become too small for me to read.

This may be an odd request, but.... could you please try this?

- Set the smallest margins possible.
- Set the line height to the smallest settings.
- Set the font size to such a size that the number of characters per line becomes around 67. (Anything in between 60 and 70 would do, but 67 would be the perfect target.)

How many lines are on the page with these settings? I'd also very much like to see a picture.

Very much thanks for your efforts. This would be one of my main considerations for an ereader such as the Aura HD. It seems the first reader that actually might be able to display mass market paperback pages 1 on 1 (which I've counted to be around 2400 characters per page.) If I don't gain a lot of text on screen using the same font sizes as I do on the Kindle, then a switch to the Aura would not be worth it for me at this time.

====

Also, if someone can test this:

- Does the font weight setting work on custom fonts?
- Does it work on side-loaded epubs?
- Do all functions with regard to reading progress and the chapter graph work, on side-loaded epubs?

I don't mind to convert to kepub to make these things work. Having font weight work on custom fonts would be a very nice bonus, but I can understand that you need some sort of special font format to make that work.

Thanks for anyone who can test this.

====

And lastly.... The book title on the top can be disabled. Can the page number on the bottom also be disabled? It would fit another 2 lines, and I don't really need to see "Page X from Y" all the time.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Thanks. That last picture shows about 50 characters per line, but only 24 lines of text. I assume the font is larger than I use on my Kindle PW. It displays (with the particular book I'm reading now) 28 lines, and 48 characters per line, but that book defines many different font sizes, one for each part of the book. One that doesn't, and just leaves everything at default (apart from the chapter headings and copyright page maybe), displays 30 lines and 51 characters.

The length of a line in many books is between 60 and 70 characters per line. LaTeX, a much used typesetting system, uses a default of 67 characters per line. I like that line length a lot. The Kindle can do it, but then the fonts become too small for me.

This may be an odd request, but.... could you please try this?

- Set the smallest margins possible.
- Set the line height to the smallest settings.
- Set the font size to such a size that the number of characters per line becomes around 67. (Anything in between 60 and 70 would do, but 67 would be the perfect target.)

Take a look at the attached photo in message #201 of this thread. It's from an eBook I posted using Charis SIL with a 92.5% of the default size with a line height of 1.01 and margins set to 0.

About 80-90 characters per line with 51 lines.

[Breid]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's not about making the perfect ePub. It's about asking how things work. It's so we can make/alter eBooks to fit how we like them to be. Kobo does some things differently and I'm just finding out how to do it the Kobo way.

Cool, tyvm for explaining.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Take a look at the attached photo in message #201 of this thread. It's from an eBook I posted using Charis SIL with a 92.5% of the default size with a line height of 1.01 and margins set to 0.

About 80-90 characters per line with 51 lines.

I've just seen that picture and counted the characters. The line I counted has 89 characters, which is way too long.

If the Kobo does not go below a line height of 1.3, and resets this to 1.3 every time a setting is changed, then I take 1.3 as the lowest maximum. I don't want to run over to the computer to put in the correct line height after I change anything.

I'd really like to see a page with a font setting that allows around +/- 65 characters per line, using only the the e-reader itself for setting the line height.

Also, I really like to know if that page display can be disabled. It wastes too much space on screen IMHO.