Glo Glo Battery Problems - Page 24

Peakcrew · 03-27-2013, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robko

THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE US AWAY, HA, HA,
THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE US AWAY, HEE, HEE,
TO THE FUNNY FARM....

Sorry, I couldn't resist any longer

I hadn't realised how old that song is: 1966 according to wonkypedia!

Is it a bad sign that it has been part of my internal soundtrack for a loooooong time ...

Mrs_Often · 03-27-2013, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peakcrew

At the risk of raising your blood-pressure again, could I suggest that you try it with the cover back on for one more session - if it goes back to the same behaviour, we <i>know</i> we are on the right track. (Just wanting to eliminate the possibility that it is something to do with where you went away.)

Okay, this isn't very scientific, but I have a few data points that look interesting:

Code:

24 Mar 2013 11:56	84%	sleep, wait, put Glo in sleeve
25 Mar 2013 10:09	84%	on                             	22h 13m

-----

26 Mar 2013 23:07	81%	on, sleep, quickly paper on screen
27 Mar 2013 11:18	64%	on                             	12h 11m

Seems like Tech's idea is close to what's going on. If I sleep the Glo (using the slider), and wait until it's fully asleep, and THEN put it in its case (assuming here that the case always touches the screen/interrupts the IR beams): nothing drains the battery. But, if I put the Glo to sleep (using the slider) and while it's going to sleep quickly put a paper towel on the screen: big fat drain. So, interrupting the IR beams while the Glo is going to sleep is disastrous for the battery.

Mrs_Often · 03-27-2013, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robko

THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE US AWAY, HA, HA,
THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE US AWAY, HEE, HEE,
TO THE FUNNY FARM....

Sorry, I couldn't resist any longer

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterT

[youtube]

Soooooo scaaaaaary!

Mrs_Often · 03-27-2013, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Well, I defy anyone hearabouts from telling the attendants from the inmates...

Has anyone other than the Mrs. been testing to see if leaving the Glo out of the case with nothing interrupting the IR prior to shutdown solves their issues?

Heeehee the Mrs.

Peakcrew · 03-27-2013, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

Okay, this isn't very scientific, but I have a few data points that look interesting:

Code:

24 Mar 2013 11:56	84%	sleep, wait, put Glo in sleeve
25 Mar 2013 10:09	84%	on                             	22h 13m

-----

26 Mar 2013 23:07	81%	on, sleep, quickly paper on screen
27 Mar 2013 11:18	64%	on                             	12h 11m

Seems like Tech's idea is close to what's going on. If I sleep the Glo, and wait until it's fully asleep, and THEN put it in its case (assuming here that the case always touches the screen/interrupts the IR beams): nothing drains the battery. But, if I put the Glo to sleep and while it's going to sleep quickly put a paper towel on the screen: big fat drain. So, interrupting the IR beams while the Glo is going to sleep is disastrous for the battery.

It is definitely looking like a disorderly shut-down of the beams on sleep. Has anyone any information on whether this only occurs when automatically sleeping, or is it the same when using the switch?

Mrs_Often · 03-27-2013, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peakcrew

It is definitely looking like a disorderly shut-down of the beams on sleep. Has anyone any information on whether this only occurs when automatically sleeping, or is it the same when using the switch?

I am using the switch.

murg · 03-27-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peakcrew

I hadn't realised how old that song is: 1966 according to wonkypedia!

Is it a bad sign that it has been part of my internal soundtrack for a loooooong time ...

Along with: Fish Heads, Fish Heads, Rolly-polly Fish Heads...

Peakcrew · 03-27-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

I am using the switch.

Sorry, Mrs_O: I misread your post with the details. There is definitely something going on that doesn't affect my Touch. I've been trying to replicate it with my old-model Touch, and, if I remember correctly, this problem also affects new Touches with the Glo firmware. Assuming that the hardware is effectively the same (no doubt there is a lot of information hereabouts, but I haven't time to look it up at the moment), then it looks as if we are able to pin-point the problem.

TechniSol · 03-27-2013, 11:04 PM

"Heeehee the Mrs."

Uh, it was late(?), and somehow "Mrs. O" struck me as far worse sounding... Like a new wave Bond Girl character name kind of wrong. Not even going to explore how "she" might do away with her victims... TMI. What can I say, I finally picked up "Casino Royale" the other night.

Anyhow you're the only "Mrs." handle around, so that sort of makes you the de facto Mrs.

BTW, for anyone experimenting, you need to be quite sure that whatever you're attempting to block the IR beams with is actually opaque to IR. I designed and prototyped a laser tag arena/outdoor gaming system and in my research came to discover a surprising variety of items apparently opaque to visible light pass IR like a sieve. No guarantees.

Mrs_Often · 03-28-2013, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peakcrew

There is definitely something going on that doesn't affect my Touch. I've been trying to replicate it with my old-model Touch, and, if I remember correctly, this problem also affects new Touches with the Glo firmware. Assuming that the hardware is effectively the same (no doubt there is a lot of information hereabouts, but I haven't time to look it up at the moment), then it looks as if we are able to pin-point the problem.

Hah good to know. So it's indeed somewhere in the newTouch/Glo firmware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Anyhow you're the only "Mrs." handle around, so that sort of makes you the de facto Mrs.

How fun. Anybody rich and about to die?

Peakcrew · 03-28-2013, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechniSol

BTW, for anyone experimenting, you need to be quite sure that whatever you're attempting to block the IR beams with is actually opaque to IR. I designed and prototyped a laser tag arena/outdoor gaming system and in my research came to discover a surprising variety of items apparently opaque to visible light pass IR like a sieve. No guarantees.

Do you have any examples of common things that pass IR but which are likely not to? I've been using Mrs_Often's and davidfor's technique with paper. I've just tested and found that my camera-phone doesn't have an IR filter (odd that still isn't done - no doubt there is a reason) by pointing my TV remote at it, so I can do a bit of checking anyway once it gets dark - the Touch IRs are quite dim, which is to be expected given the short range.

TechniSol · 03-28-2013, 07:09 PM

Peakcrew,

Gads, it's been years since I initially researched, but the hard and fast rule of thumb was don't assume just because it won't pass visible or appears opaque that it won't pass IR... test it. You have an IR sensitive camera, a TV remote makes an OK, if a bit dim, IR source for testing. A piece of exposed/developed 35mm negative appears black, but passes IR and blocks visible pretty well.

My tag blaster designs pumped nearly 10amps through the IR LED at a very low duty cycle for a very short period of time(just long enough to transmit 8-10 characters @2400bps and employed a pseudo manchester encoding so for every high bit there was a coresponding low bit or break) and employed a simple lens to concentrate the beam -I think my max "rate of fire" was no more than 5 shots per second, but I may have gone as high as ten. Got me about 360' range in full sunlight aiming with a red dot scope and transmitting who shot you.(Blaster # which was matched to a name or handle in a teensy database maintained on each microcontroller)

It's been 4+ years since I played with the code. The other thing was absorption(important to arena play), flat black spray paint works like a charm to absorb IR as it's apparently mostly carbon particulates in nature.

I eventually tracked down a visible light blocking deep reddish black plastic that looks completely opaque, but transmit's around 93-98% IR @ 880-940nm frequency. I found a company near Las Vegas that would sell me less than full 4'x8' sheets of it.

They absolutely would not discuss what products they molded with it, but if I had to guess the casinos can see every card that's dealt as well as laid on a dark plastic looking playing surface, just to keep card "mechanics" honest...

Bear in mind said surface might easily be disguised with a fabric covering that also appears opaque, maybe even greenish in visible light. Probably makes nice table surfaces for Poker, Chemmy, Blackjack, and those euro rooted games for people that apparently can only be bothered to count to 7 or 9...

I'm sure any black looking expanse of plastic in the decor probably hides an IR camera as well.

Peakcrew · 03-29-2013, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Peakcrew,

Gads, it's been years since I initially researched, but the hard and fast rule of thumb was don't assume just because it won't pass visible or appears opaque that it won't pass IR... test it. You have an IR sensitive camera, a TV remote makes an OK, if a bit dim, IR source for testing. A piece of exposed/developed 35mm negative appears black, but passes IR and blocks visible pretty well.

... I'm sure any black looking expanse of plastic in the decor probably hides an IR camera as well.

That was a great post - thanks!

I have done some work on security systems in the past, and agree entirely about the black plastic in decor!

I was only really asking if there was anything common that our fellow posters might think would block the beams but wouldn't. I know that you can't rely on how it deals with visible light - cotton is a poor UV reflector, for instance. However, my tests with my phone camera suggest that paper and cardboard are IR opaque in the range my Touch uses, and Daivid and Mrs_Often seem to be able to show that the same works on the Glo.

I tried the teast again last night on my Touch - use the switch to put it to sleep, and quickly put a postcard on the screen. No noticable battery drain after 10 hours. Tonight I'll put a raised section in the card to make sure it interrupts the beam (though I'm fairly sure it does when flat) just to make sure that the old Touch is immune.

mrbowman · 03-29-2013, 07:38 AM

I came to this thread by Mrs_Often recommendation. I wish the crazy batteries issue are caused for reasons you pointed here. Those damn covers!!!

Guys, you really rock!!!

My 2nd Touch is comming, can't wait!!!!

Peakcrew · 03-29-2013, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbowman

I came to this thread by Mrs_Often recommendation. I wish the crazy batteries issue are caused for reasons you pointed here. Those damn covers!!!

Guys, you really rock!!!

My 2nd Touch is comming, can't wait!!!!

Good to hear from you, mrbowman. As far as we can tell at the moment, we are narrowing down the problem to a bad shutdown of the infra-red sensors if something interrupts them during going to sleep in Glo(e)s and later Touches. Somehow, this triggers some sort of high power-use behaviour in the firmware.

The apparent work-around is: put the reader to sleep using the switch, wait until the book cover/sleep notification comes up, then put the cover on. That way you *should* have no problems.

03-28-2013, 07:09 PM	#357
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	Peakcrew, Gads, it's been years since I initially researched, but the hard and fast rule of thumb was don't assume just because it won't pass visible or appears opaque that it won't pass IR... test it. You have an IR sensitive camera, a TV remote makes an OK, if a bit dim, IR source for testing. A piece of exposed/developed 35mm negative appears black, but passes IR and blocks visible pretty well. My tag blaster designs pumped nearly 10amps through the IR LED at a very low duty cycle for a very short period of time(just long enough to transmit 8-10 characters @2400bps and employed a pseudo manchester encoding so for every high bit there was a coresponding low bit or break) and employed a simple lens to concentrate the beam -I think my max "rate of fire" was no more than 5 shots per second, but I may have gone as high as ten. Got me about 360' range in full sunlight aiming with a red dot scope and transmitting who shot you.(Blaster # which was matched to a name or handle in a teensy database maintained on each microcontroller) It's been 4+ years since I played with the code. The other thing was absorption(important to arena play), flat black spray paint works like a charm to absorb IR as it's apparently mostly carbon particulates in nature. I eventually tracked down a visible light blocking deep reddish black plastic that looks completely opaque, but transmit's around 93-98% IR @ 880-940nm frequency. I found a company near Las Vegas that would sell me less than full 4'x8' sheets of it. They absolutely would not discuss what products they molded with it, but if I had to guess the casinos can see every card that's dealt as well as laid on a dark plastic looking playing surface, just to keep card "mechanics" honest... Bear in mind said surface might easily be disguised with a fabric covering that also appears opaque, maybe even greenish in visible light. Probably makes nice table surfaces for Poker, Chemmy, Blackjack, and those euro rooted games for people that apparently can only be bothered to count to 7 or 9... I'm sure any black looking expanse of plastic in the decor probably hides an IR camera as well. Last edited by TechniSol; 03-28-2013 at 07:12 PM.

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03-27-2013, 11:04 PM	#354
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	"Heeehee the Mrs." Uh, it was late(?), and somehow "Mrs. O" struck me as far worse sounding... Like a new wave Bond Girl character name kind of wrong. Not even going to explore how "she" might do away with her victims... TMI. What can I say, I finally picked up "Casino Royale" the other night. Anyhow you're the only "Mrs." handle around, so that sort of makes you the de facto Mrs. BTW, for anyone experimenting, you need to be quite sure that whatever you're attempting to block the IR beams with is actually opaque to IR. I designed and prototyped a laser tag arena/outdoor gaming system and in my research came to discover a surprising variety of items apparently opaque to visible light pass IR like a sieve. No guarantees.

03-29-2013, 07:38 AM	#359
mrbowman Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Spain Device: Kobo Touch	I came to this thread by Mrs_Often recommendation. I wish the crazy batteries issue are caused for reasons you pointed here. Those damn covers!!! Guys, you really rock!!! My 2nd Touch is comming, can't wait!!!!