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Old 03-05-2013, 06:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
That is because deleting the database is the wrong thing to do. That doesn't tell the server what to with the shelves it knows about, including the duplicates.
You misunderstand me. When I say device-to-sqlite-to-server, I'm not talking about directly touching the database. Instead, I mean that the database is an intermediate step between the device interface and the server, one that it seems has certain limitations that the apps' interfaces do not share. That's why the apps can Really Truly delete shelves, and syncing the device after such a pass means that instead of the faulty device-to-sqlite path, the changes propagate down the server-to-sqlite path instead. Since the device's sync date is older, good data comes down and bad data doesn't go up. That's why the sequence is so crucial: delete on server via app, THEN refresh device, THEN refresh app, repeat until done. It keeps the app "in charge" and negates the bad data on the device.

Now, once you get your server info clean that way, of course you should log out of the device before doing anything else (to stake its database once and for all, before it can pollute the server again) and then log back in to build a fresh, clean one. Yes, I wound up doing this "the bad way" by just deleting the database wholesale, but the principle of "quarantine, treat, eradicate" remains sound.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:42 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Rev. Bob View Post
You misunderstand me. When I say device-to-sqlite-to-server, I'm not talking about directly touching the database.
I suppose I did. But, you had also suggested blowing the database away in another post, so what I said wasn't inconsistent with your advice.
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Instead, I mean that the database is an intermediate step between the device interface and the server, one that it seems has certain limitations that the apps' interfaces do not share. That's why the apps can Really Truly delete shelves, and syncing the device after such a pass means that instead of the faulty device-to-sqlite path, the changes propagate down the server-to-sqlite path instead. Since the device's sync date is older, good data comes down and bad data doesn't go up. That's why the sequence is so crucial: delete on server via app, THEN refresh device, THEN refresh app, repeat until done. It keeps the app "in charge" and negates the bad data on the device.
That is a good explanation of how it seems to work. But, I don't think there is a real difference between how the app and devices work. With my Touch and Glo, I have done the tests to check the syncing of shelves between the two. It works perfectly. And I very much doubt if there is a difference in how the basic way that the apps do their delete.
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Now, once you get your server info clean that way, of course you should log out of the device before doing anything else (to stake its database once and for all, before it can pollute the server again) and then log back in to build a fresh, clean one. Yes, I wound up doing this "the bad way" by just deleting the database wholesale, but the principle of "quarantine, treat, eradicate" remains sound.
That is way overkill. If the deletes and syncs all worked, then the database will be clean.

But, of course, if what you say about the apps doing it better, then your instructions are overkill, especially when you add the logout step. Solution is simple:

- Logout on the device
- Delete all the shelves on the app
- Sync the app
- Login on the device.

If that doesn't sort it out, then nothing will.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:27 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
I very much doubt if there is a difference in how the basic way that the apps do their delete.
And yet, there is. Shelves that can't be deleted on the device can be deleted in the app; therefore, there is a difference in how they handle deletion. Theory's all well and good, but empirical evidence trumps it every time.

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Originally Posted by davidfor
That is way overkill. If the deletes and syncs all worked, then the database will be clean.
The evidence says otherwise. This isn't a theory I've worked up out of whole cloth; I experimented, recorded the results, and am reporting on What Really Worked.

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Originally Posted by davidfor
But, of course, if what you say about the apps doing it better, then your instructions are overkill, especially when you add the logout step. Solution is simple:

- Logout on the device
- Delete all the shelves on the app
- Sync the app
- Login on the device.

If that doesn't sort it out, then nothing will.
If you only have one set of duplicates, and your second pass through the app shows you no new resurrections, then that will sort it out. However, that's not the case in reports I've seen, where a sync produces multiple duplicates of the same shelf. In those cases, you must go through the sync-delete-sync step multiple times to kill all the duplicates. There's just no way around that, as the app isn't designed to show multiple shelves with the same name but different IDs, which is the real issue; the device doesn't handle "same shelf name, different ID" correctly.

Suppose I have a shelf named SF, and I sync my device and see three copies (IDs 1, 2, and 3) of that shelf. I can't delete any of the three from the device, because the other two instantly resurrect it. I can't see but one copy in the app, but I can delete it there. So I do that, and maybe that kills SF #2 on the server. Sync down to the device, and hopefully it kills SF #2 there as well. But you still have SF #3 to deal with. That's why you resync the app, see another SF shelf pop up, kill it, and resync, and that's why you resync the app again after pulling that fix down to the device. Properly, you should keep going until you get a clean app sync with no copies of SF, whereupon you can create a new SciFi shelf to replace it.

You have to eradicate all the duplicates before the problem is fixed, and that has to be done in (in this case) all three places: app, device, and server. It's possible that the device database will be fixed and pristine at this point, but it's much safer to kill it (by logging out) and reconstitute it than to cross your fingers and hope you're safe. It's like nuking the planet from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. Besides, this is a long enough process to begin with; do you really want to trade the effort of making one more pass for the possibility of having to go through all of this again later?

I happen to write code for a living, and I've been programming for over 25 years; I do know a little bit about dealing with this sort of thing...
Last edited by Rev. Bob; 03-05-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:23 AM   #49
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And yet, there is. Shelves that can't be deleted on the device can be deleted in the app; therefore, there is a difference in how they handle deletion. Theory's all well and good, but empirical evidence trumps it every time.

The evidence says otherwise. This isn't a theory I've worked up out of whole cloth; I experimented, recorded the results, and am reporting on What Really Worked.

If you only have one set of duplicates, and your second pass through the app shows you no new resurrections, then that will sort it out. However, that's not the case in reports I've seen, where a sync produces multiple duplicates of the same shelf. In those cases, you must go through the sync-delete-sync step multiple times to kill all the duplicates. There's just no way around that, as the app isn't designed to show multiple shelves with the same name but different IDs, which is the real issue; the device doesn't handle "same shelf name, different ID" correctly.
So, something that you haven't mentioned before: the app doesn't show the duplicated shelves. Strangely enough, I am sure that I have been told that it did and cleaning up the duplicates was discussed with it as well. That was a while ago, so maybe that has changed.

Quote:
Suppose I have a shelf named SF, and I sync my device and see three copies (IDs 1, 2, and 3) of that shelf. I can't delete any of the three from the device, because the other two instantly resurrect it...
That doesn't agree with my experience. I had no trouble deleting the duplicates. My problem was that I ended up with nearly 2000 shelves each time it happened. It just wasn't practical to go through and delete them all manually.
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I can't see but one copy in the app, but I can delete it there. So I do that, and maybe that kills SF #2 on the server. Sync down to the device, and hopefully it kills SF #2 there as well. But you still have SF #3 to deal with. That's why you resync the app, see another SF shelf pop up, kill it, and resync, and that's why you resync the app again after pulling that fix down to the device. Properly, you should keep going until you get a clean app sync with no copies of SF, whereupon you can create a new SciFi shelf to replace it.

You have to eradicate all the duplicates before the problem is fixed, and that has to be done in (in this case) all three places: app, device, and server. It's possible that the device database will be fixed and pristine at this point, but it's much safer to kill it (by logging out) and reconstitute it than to cross your fingers and hope you're safe. It's like nuking the planet from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. Besides, this is a long enough process to begin with; do you really want to trade the effort of making one more pass for the possibility of having to go through all of this again later?
So the steps I missed was to sync the app, delete the shelves and repeat until no duplicated shelves turn up. The only advantage in syncing down to the device is to make it easy to work out which shelves are left. But, of course you could just look at the shelf list on the device. The database on the devices has always been clean after a sync, so the logout is not really needed.

Of course, none of this helps someone who only has the single device.
Quote:
I happen to write code for a living, and I've been programming for over 25 years; I do know a little bit about dealing with this sort of thing...
OK, I'll concede. Without any duplicates appearing on my devices recently or access to the iOS/Android app, I can't test anything. And you obviously know a lot more than I do.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #50
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If it helps anything (and I'm going to get in touch with customer service, to see if they can help me), here's the current behaviour of my multiple shelves.

1. They cannot be deleted or renamed. It goes through the process of doing so, but nothing actually happens.

2. The do not show a "created on" date like my other shelves do.

3. If I accidentally add a book to one of the offending multiples, it creates yet *another* multiple shelf of itself. It does this for each book added.

4. If you're looking at them in the list view, it says they have "X" amount of books in the shelf. However, if I go into the shelves themselves, they tell me they are empty. I know this is absolutely true, because I deleted every book off my actual reader and put them all on my SD, knowing I was going to attempt another factory reset.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:21 PM   #51
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If it helps anything (and I'm going to get in touch with customer service, to see if they can help me), here's the current behaviour of my multiple shelves.

1. They cannot be deleted or renamed. It goes through the process of doing so, but nothing actually happens.
That matches my experience, too. I can't attest to the other three points you mention, as I went straight from "see duplicates" to "must fix now." About how many duplicates of a given shelf are you seeing - a couple or a handful?

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Originally Posted by Corpsegoddess
I know this is absolutely true, because I deleted every book off my actual reader and put them all on my SD, knowing I was going to attempt another factory reset.
Certainly a prudent step to take, and that's one reason I generally keep my sideloaded content on the card.

If you know someone with an iOS device, it may well be worth asking them to let you borrow the device long enough to try my solution...especially if they don't have the Kobo app installed already. That way, they install the Kobo app, you log in, go through the repair steps, delete the app, and it takes your account information off their device in the process - so you're secure. If I lived near you, I'd offer to do so myself; it's a boring process, but not a particularly long one.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:27 PM   #52
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... (and I'm going to get in touch with customer service, to see if they can help me), ...
That would be wise. I had an e-mail from customer care regarding duplicate shelves a week ago with some steps to take and instructions to let them know when done and they would complete the fix on their end. Can't say if it worked or not since my duplicates had disappeared on their own at that point, however it was specific instructions so they apparently are fixing it in a specific way.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:50 PM   #53
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That matches my experience, too. I can't attest to the other three points you mention, as I went straight from "see duplicates" to "must fix now." About how many duplicates of a given shelf are you seeing - a couple or a handful?
It's always three of each shelf, each time they return. Should have mentioned that fact-thanks for reminding me.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:17 PM   #54
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It's always three of each shelf, each time they return. Should have mentioned that fact-thanks for reminding me.
Yeah, that's relatively easy to fix. Depending on device sync time and total number of shelves, I could probably have it fixed in about half an hour.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:51 AM   #55
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@Corpsegoddess: I don't understand what exactly this bug is about...
Can you copy&paste the bbocde in the first post of Bugs thread and fill the data?
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:55 AM   #56
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This is not an issue with the device; it's an issue on the Kobo back end.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:57 AM   #57
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And it is a problem that was fixed in the backend, but, may need some shelves removed by Kobo to finish the clean up.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:15 AM   #58
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If I understand well, some shelves was created syncing the device, now the bug is fixed but the shelves must be removed manually? If so, I think the bug is solved.

Anyway I'd have added it if it was not fixed, the thread is titled Kobo bugs, not Kobo device bugs
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:28 AM   #59
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FWIW. I update to 2.1.5 about two weeks ago. Before the update, I didn't have any duplicate shelves. After the update, I had multiple shelves. Not sure how this is considered "fixed".
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:44 AM   #60
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For what it's worth, I ended up emailing the support at Kobo and they took care of this for me. I had to send them the exact name of the offending shelves; they did some sort of something on their end and then they were gone.
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